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Messages - Salzburg Surf Scene

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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« on: February 15, 2014, 04:09:56 PM »
McParland all the way until something tops it.

I'd love to get hold of his books, but when I got in touch with him he quoted an absurd price for postage to Europe. And I'm just a broke historian who put up videos on youtube... So I'll have to stick to the erroneous posts I put on youtube, and continue to insist Arnie wrote/produced/recorded everything, whatever evidence is presented to the contrary (I'd make a great politician!).

By the way, very glad to see this is the second thread in a couple of days leaning towards violence. This place is getting lively!

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« on: February 15, 2014, 01:48:37 PM »
Other fans took the ball and ran with it, posting videos, etc.

Ha ha... that'd be the videos I put on Youtube a couple of years back!!

 To be fair, at the time that was the prevailing view. I would go and change the video titles, but since Google bought up Youtube I haven't been able to log on to my old account. Having said that, they are great songs, and so I don't mind them being attributed to Arnie. Future historians will credit the songs to Arnie 'cos of my videos! In fact, thinking about it, I'll go and post videos attributing Pet Sounds and Rubber Soul to him (I've never been convinced by the musical claims of Wilson and that Mccartney fellow...).

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: A Christmas present from 2011
« on: February 15, 2014, 05:32:44 AM »
This has become a great thread. Good to have some passion out there! I like the rumble idea - but we should make it more interesting with a breakaway "Arnie-ist" faction, and then a really weird group who reckon it was all aliens. If we mixed in a few egos, then we really would be like the smiley smile board...

Back on topic. I think the interview is very interesting - and important - in that it gives an insight to what Dean has really thought over the years. We have all been so swept up in the incredibly moving story of Jan's journey to "recovery", that we tend to overlook - I think we try to overlook - his ongoing disabilities and the daily hardships.

And this brings me to another point, another tragedy in the Jan Berry story. The narrative we have, of Jan's brave battle to overcome his problems - has become "THE" Jan Berry story. It is a moving and inspiring one, no doubt. But it has overshadowed the other Jan Berry story: the story of the rebel musical genius, who laid the foundations for much of the music of the 1960s (and after); who revolutionised recording techniques and the very ways of organising and running a recording session; and who produced some of the most remarkable music of a period that was filled with remarkable music. The story of Jan Berry - as related in the general media and the public imagination -  is of the rock star who battled to overcome disability. It is about Jan the tragic but heroic human being; but it is never about Jan the musician and genius. In a sense one story has overshadowed the other, and that really is a tragedy, because it means the music - which is Jan's legacy - is so often overlooked.

« on: November 30, 2013, 01:10:49 PM »
Yep bit influenced by Jan & Dean, especially in the humour department,  click on the link below an it will take you to our Facebook Band page of the group The Lamplighters, and go to the songs and the first tune is "Hot Dog City"  a tribute to Jan & Dean. Its a premastered version, I'll try to get a fully mastered version up soon, but you'll get the idea!!!!!

Great stuff. There was a thread here a while back in which we posted music member s had made:

As a point of shameless self promotion (come on, what would Jan have done?!) I put up more tracks:
A couple surfy numbers ("Betty isn't surfin anymore" and "Girl form Salzburg") and a J&D tribute ("eureka california"). And some other stuff, best ignored (to quote Bruce Johnston, a lot of it sounds much better if you don't get to hear it).

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Surf City-where does it rank?
« on: November 29, 2013, 12:08:45 PM »
Wow, Salzburg, that was the most lucid, intelligent, passionate and accurate pieces i've ever read on the power and grace and grunge that was surf music. Its up there with Ian Whitcomb's Chapter Surf City in his " Rock Oddessy" book, perhaps surf needed an outsider like Englishman Whitcomb to define its raw power and esoteric atmospheric resonance.

BTW, if you're looking for a Post sixties Jan & Dean, go no further than The Dictators 1975 LP " Go Girl Crazy", even if the lp didnt contain a cover of "California Sun" and the song " I Live for Cars and Girls" the ability of the Dicks to poke fun at po faced and bloated '70s rock dupes install them as J&D's rightful successors.
Salz, well done and well said.

Cheers! I need that sort of encouragement. As I said, I think about this stuff FAR too much... Will check out The Dictators.

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Surf City-where does it rank?
« on: November 29, 2013, 12:06:43 PM »
... the Barracudas (a band I consider the truest heirs of J&D) ...
The Barracudas were (or still are) great. I've met them a couple of times

Very under-rated, those guys

They are legends - Jeremy Gluck (lead singer) once told me to **** off, which remains a proud moment for me (hey, I was 19). Years later I did get to sing with them though...well sort of. And Robin Wills described one of my songs as "the Surfaris meets the Velvet Underground", which was cool...

By the way Surfin Again - are you the guy in Switzerland I once bough Surfin Lungs CDs from?

« on: November 19, 2013, 01:57:19 PM »
I'm a musician from New South Wales, Australia and i named my own independant record label Blue Fox Records in honour of Jan & Dean, 3 EPs released in 10 years and still going strong!!!!!!!

Hi mate. Any links to your music? Is it J&D influenced?

« on: November 19, 2013, 01:55:44 PM »
I'm going with the Sex Club in TJ . Us Falsetto singers are a bunch of Pervs with a capitol P . And How !

Actually I buy into that. Its typical of the J&D humour to see how far they could push it. A brilliant concept - an album cover, all very family friendly with a Little Old Lady, and a covert reference to a strip club. I've thought for a while of writing a piece on the innuendo and double meanings in a lot of J&D lyrics (I mean, check out a song like Dragstrip Girl - its pure filth!). I really can imagine Dean thinking - "OK, lets see how many people get this one".

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Jan & Dean Publications/Books
« on: October 07, 2013, 01:15:18 AM »
Far too few. We're all waiting for Mark's books!

There is the Passmore book: Mark Thomas Passmore: "Dead Manís Curve and Back: the Jan & Dean Story". Mark has pointed out before that its filled with inaccuracies. I think its also self-published, and not the highest quality. But its not a bad read, and has some decent parts.
Then there's Bob Greene's "When We Get to Surf City: A Journey Through America in Pursuit of Rock and Roll, Friendship, and Dreams". This is really a memoir of his time with the J&D band during phase 2. It is a fascinating insight, although its much more about his experience than about J&D in general. There are some excellent passages - his brief synopsis of J&D history is outstandingly moving - but there are also long parts which descend into overly sentimental nostalgia. But in general an essential book for anyone interested in J&D.
There are also a number of books by Stephen McParland, who sells through his own website ( He seems to have written on every aspect of surf, with quite few on J&D. Haven't seen most of them and I think Mark has also questioned their accuracy. Problem is, with postage they are prohibitively expensive.

Any I've missed?

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Surf City-where does it rank?
« on: August 28, 2013, 01:09:46 PM »
Yes, I hear that a lot that Jan would be taken more seriously if the subject matter was more serious.

I know what you mean - people will say this. Of course, I reckon they're missing the point. The subject matter was integral to the sound. Surf music is a form of garage music (or are garage and punk just offshoots of surf?) and the lyrical content is crucial. I have been thinking of writing a piece about surf music for a while, trying to define - and defend it. The general dismissal of the genre is based on various things, mostly ignorance and the assumption that the Beach Boys were the genre. Much as I love the BBs, I really don't consider their early stuff to be "surf" music as I understand it - or at least, I reckon its very different. Part of it is vocal -  I think Brian's voice was too pure, too spiritual; and Mike's voice too easy, too smooth. For me a hallmark of surf is the garagey rawness, which means singers need an edge and an element of angst  to the voice. Jan had it, as did Dean; as did P.F Sloan, Bobby Fuller, Ron Wilson (of the Surfaris), and Bruce Johnston (his surf stuff was before he joined the BBs, and by then they'd moved on to other things). The few times the BBs did get that element was when Dennis sang lead (Surfer's Rule, This Car of Mine).

The general assumption that surf music is meaningless good time/fun music has cursed the genre ever since. I for one don't believe it was in any way meaningless - surf music as a genre was as philosophically complex as anything the folk, hippie and psychedelic genres would do later on. The thing is - and perhaps the problem - is the surf in general, and J&D in particular, were so deeply ironic that far too many people missed the underlying sophistication. The hippie protest songs, on the other hand, were utterly lacking in irony and took themselves with an absurd seriousness (a feature Jan parodied in the Universal Coward). I suspect that the likes of Jan enjoyed playing with his listeners. People ever since have missed the point.

Even worse, these assumptions have meant that surf has been associated with the awful "sunshine pop" of the late 60s. But the true heirs of surf are punk and garage - from The Ramones to the Barracudas (a band I consider the truest heirs of J&D -  I'm also thinking of writing a piece on them!).

I know Jan once remarked that there was no such thing as surf music, just the different styles of singers/bands. But he could say this because surf music was fundamentally his sound. If others did songs about surfing before J&D, they did it with a heavy reliance on the J&D style, especially Jan's bass lines and Dean's falsettoes.

Anyways, my musings on surf probably need a lot more refining, but I still reckon I'm on to something!

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Surf City-where does it rank?
« on: August 28, 2013, 12:31:34 PM »
The great unanswered question remains...if Surf City did indeed have two girls for every boy, then why, pray tell, on the 45 picture sleeve for Surf City there are two boys (Jan & Dean) and one girl (Jill Gibson)?

The answer is easy - remember the lyrics: "Gonna go to Surf City" and "When I get to Surf City". The song is all in the future tense. So they are GOING to have 2 girls each! Indeed, the frustration at having to share just the one girl (who is Linda, obviously, who they took surfin' earlier) probably lies behind the motivation to get to Surf City...

Actually, on a more serious point - I think this is the very genius that lies behind the song. Its all about aspiration. The lure of Surf City - and surf music in general - is the aspiration which anyone, no matter where they are, can relate to. Surf City remains an idea, a utopian dream, and this is its power. Lyrically, the song is quite brilliant - on a surface level it epitomises the lure of surf culture. But it works on a much deeper level. Okay, I admit I spend far too much time thinking (and I mean REALLY thinking) about surf music - Surf City is both the most powerful expression of pop surf culture and the aspirations of a generation, but also carries the tacit realisation that this dream can never be - it is all in the future, an impossibly beautiful one.

So, where does Surf City rank? I agree with Mark that production wise, it doesn't compare with some of Jan's later work. But it is the very height of pop surf culture. The fact it sounds quite raw and ready compared to Jan's later productions adds to the appeal - it has the raw garagey feel which is a hallmark of surf music. The likes of Surfin USA (a song which, apart form being a Chuck Berry rip off, is lyrically gibberish) do not compare. I think the only surf songs which surpass it are a few which J&D would do later on - Surfin' Wild. Waimea Bay etc. And a few songs by other artists who were heavily J&D influenced (The Ripchords, Bobby Fuller etc). 

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Surfin USA/Surf City
« on: June 25, 2013, 02:10:14 PM »
I reckon this is a pretty important topic - it is indeed the most successful J&D record, and the entire mythology that seeks to give all the credit to Brian is hugely damaging to the way people perceive J&D. The comments on the link Owen posted are revealing - a lot of those people admit that they thought it was a BBs record (which suggests they don't know a lot about either band).

I would love to know exactly what Brian gave Jan. The title "Goody Connie..." - if it is true - suggests that the song Brian had in mind was (lyrically at least) a long long way from Surf City. And we shouldn't underestimate the huge importance of the ideas/ideology the song represented (this is going on to another subject, but I do reckon the song is a lot more complex than is generally recognised today, and that this played a big part in its success). If Jan - with either Don or Dean - reworked the lyrics/ideas of the song, then that really matters. And to top it off, it was a Jan production, not a Brian one.

I guess its hard to know if Dean did contribute something lyrically, although it is possible. I'd always assumed that Dean and Brian were doubling the falsetto on the song - I thought I read that somewhere - will there be something on that in the sessionography? Would be good to know for sure.

A final point - when I saw Brian play live a few years back, he introduced the song "Then I Kissed Her" as a song he wrote. As it was pretty much the only song in the whole concert he hadn't written, it did stand out. OK, he's entitled to be a bit confused after all he's been through, but it does illustrate how these memories get mixed up.

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: (Jan and) Dean on the news
« on: May 27, 2013, 01:13:14 PM »
Yeah, many thanks for the link! And even congrats to CBS for not dwelling on the Hawthorne wannabes! Dean comes across as very cool too.

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Love and Mercy
« on: April 19, 2013, 01:46:43 PM »
I fear Jan will be completely written out, as ever. I've just been watching an interesting documentary about Pet Sounds (Art That Shook The World: The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds (1/2)). It recaps Brian's pre-66 career, presenting him as the sole creator of the "California Sound", and the wrecking crew as Spector's musicians. J&D do appear briefly (at about 9.50 mins), introducing the BBs segment on the TAMI show - but they are not mentioned or referred to throughout.

Of course, Jan's introducing of the BBs ("the real surfers" he calls them - he knew that only Dennis surfed!) was as ever deeply ironic - but of course everyone has taken it at face value.

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Keith Moon reference
« on: April 19, 2013, 01:37:22 PM »
A cool comment by Bruce Johnston on Keith's love for J&D (at about the 30-35 second mark)

Bruce Johnston brings Pet Sounds to Lennon & McCartney in London

Once again Bruce showing that he is the most genuine and likeable of the whole Beach Boy entourage, admitting that Keith preferred J&D to the BBs! (Actually the whole interview is typical Bruce, downplaying his own contribution to Pet Sounds, which was not inconsiderable).

Its a passing comment, but the fact he makes it shows he appreciates both J&D and that he actually knew Keith properly.

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