Author Topic: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66  (Read 29650 times)

BlackSea

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2014, 03:37:44 PM »
McParland all the way until something tops it.

Salzburg Surf Scene

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2014, 04:09:56 PM »
McParland all the way until something tops it.

I'd love to get hold of his books, but when I got in touch with him he quoted an absurd price for postage to Europe. And I'm just a broke historian who put up videos on youtube... So I'll have to stick to the erroneous posts I put on youtube, and continue to insist Arnie wrote/produced/recorded everything, whatever evidence is presented to the contrary (I'd make a great politician!).

By the way, very glad to see this is the second thread in a couple of days leaning towards violence. This place is getting lively!

BlackSea

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2014, 04:26:52 PM »
Lol dude, You know the best part about all these revelations is learning about the existance of Alan Burn. There's a fuzz tone track on his sight that is extremely good.
I know the books may appear expensive but theyre well worth it. The way I see it for thr cost of a night out you got hours of quality reading.
Just for the record Im not a sales rep for the guy and dont receive a commission.
Maybe Wally can part with some of his cash. Hes well paid and
swimming in it.
LOL

1WALLY1

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2014, 04:45:41 PM »
Yeah what is with you Black Sea first you expose my occupation now your my financial advisor. Salzburg I'd like to help you out but I got a big mortgage just bought a pad in the Cocos Islands.
I need to head off Black Sea works waiting and you know how it is I've gotta head off to that well paid job you refer to. Keep your guard up at all times and box out of it. Remember Jan and Dean its not a lifestyle it's an attitude.

BlackSea

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2014, 04:50:32 PM »
That last one was corny dude I think you got that lame line from Beverly Hills 90210. That ones unforgivable. Some Beachboys MIU Album coming out of you.
Lol dudes until round two

Surfin Again

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2014, 11:38:48 PM »
You are clueless . . . My interview with Arnie Ginsburg took place before the McParland books were even published. Arnie discussed his few later recordings with me; and that's what I go on.

Frank Kisko's acetate came to light subsequently. This kind of stuff is common among collectors and bootleggers. They "speculate" on stuff without doing any research, and it gets spread around. The bootleg liners for "Carnival of Sound" are hilariously inaccurate, for example.

For a while, posted online, there was a bogus disc label image for "Girl, You're Blowing My Mind" showing the songwriter as Pierre Hunt. Not only did Hunt not write the song, but the disc image was "Photoshopped" to look authentic, based on the bogus bootleg liners.

Pierre Hunt was a soul artist who wrote and performed a song called "You're Blowing My Mind," which was released on the Golden Wheels label in 1975. But based on title alone, the bootleggers just ran with him being the writer of Jan's song.  It's mind-boggling.
Who cares???

It used to be fun

Collecting used to be fun

The music used to be fun

Publishing a fanzine (yes, in paper form) and later a website used to be fun

Gathering "facts" used to be fun (and it was only secondary if they were historically 100% on the point)

Everyone was excited, when something new appeared. And the McParlands, the Kiskos, The Kellys, the Plummers, The Bossards, etc all did a great job

And both Jan & Dean supported the whole thing

It was ROCK 'N' ROLL

Nowadays, it's only dry historical facts

Jan & Dean as a musical act are not that important. Jan will never get the recognition he deserves. No-one can change the course of rock 'n' roll history as it is written by now

Enjoy their music. That's all that counts

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2014, 12:34:39 AM »

Who cares???

It used to be fun

Collecting used to be fun

The music used to be fun

Publishing a fanzine (yes, in paper form) and later a website used to be fun

Gathering "facts" used to be fun (and it was only secondary if they were historically 100% on the point)

Everyone was excited, when something new appeared. And the McParlands, the Kiskos, The Kellys, the Plummers, The Bossards, etc all did a great job

And both Jan & Dean supported the whole thing

It was ROCK 'N' ROLL

Nowadays, it's only dry historical facts

Jan & Dean as a musical act are not that important. Jan will never get the recognition he deserves. No-one can change the course of rock 'n' roll history as it is written by now

Enjoy their music. That's all that counts

Wow, this post is delusional on so many levels.

Sorry, but your "fun" and "excitement" as a collector and bootlegger take a back seat to historical accuracy.

You're a prime example of blind fandom, without any regard to historical integrity. But hey, as long as you're having "fun," that's all that matters, right?

Unfortunately, that tact and attitude has done little for Jan & Dean.

And as far as Jan & Dean "supporting" the whole thing . . . they took what was coming their way, and at the time, it was all they had on the fan level, in terms of trying to further their reach in Phase II, before the Internet (so at least part of it was positive).

But unfortunately for Jan, it also came with getting ripped off by the likes of Mark Plummer and others.

You have to understand that they (meaning mostly Dean) embraced what you were doing as a means of exposure. Facts be damned. Toe the fan-boy party line, or you're out.

When Michael Kelly ended "Sunshine Music" in the early '90s, his 15-year access to Dean Torrence evaporated virtually overnight . . . and the same thing is probably going to happen to David Beard when he ends ESQ in the near future.



Surfin Again

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2014, 12:55:54 AM »
You're a prime example of blind fandom [...] your "fun" and "excitement" as a collector and bootlegger take a back seat to historical accuracy.
So what? You don't seem to remember what music is all about. You're completely lost in historical facts. You are so stubborn within your research that you even start assaulting people who are supposed to buy your future books. As much as I admire the work you put into your books, except the few "blind fans" that are still around and will buy them, they won't be a big seller and they won't change anything because, except the handful of die-hard fans that still hang around on the boards, no-one will care

Unfortunately, that tact and attitude has done little for Jan & Dean
You are completely wrong. Without us, keeping the Jan & Dean name alive back then, no-one would give a damn about Jan & Dean nowadays. I have been in touch with both Jan and Dean (and Jan's dad and Gertie) and I have a lot of letters by them, telling me that they appreciated what we have done

You weren't even around then, so stop judging about us

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2014, 01:36:45 AM »
You're a prime example of blind fandom [...] your "fun" and "excitement" as a collector and bootlegger take a back seat to historical accuracy.
So what? You don't seem to remember what music is all about. You're completely lost in historical facts. You are so stubborn within your research that you even start assaulting people who are supposed to buy your future books. As much as I admire the work you put into your books, except the few "blind fans" that are still around and will buy them, they won't be a big seller and they won't change anything because, except the handful of die-hard fans that still hang around on the boards, no-one will care

Unfortunately, that tact and attitude has done little for Jan & Dean
You are completely wrong. Without us, keeping the Jan & Dean name alive back then, no-one would give a damn about Jan & Dean nowadays. I have been in touch with both Jan and Dean (and Jan's dad and Gertie) and I have a lot of letters by them, telling me that they appreciated what we have done

You weren't even around then, so stop judging about us

All of the positives were (and are) appreciated. Bill Berry certainly embraced the exposure for his son . . . but it didn't stop Plummer from ripping Jan off in a major way . . . did it? And Plummer wasn't the only one.

I'm not here to "assault" people . . . but at the same time, anyone who comes on here with ill-informed posts meant to provoke will get an in-kind response.

BlackSea

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2014, 05:25:44 AM »
When something becomes to clinical it becomes boring. Ill informed posts as you state may be totally out there but in the end it may unravel something that no one was aware of.  I've never bootlegged anything except in my personal collection just for the purposes of putting tracks from ten pieces of vinyl onto one CD to group a collection of songs that belong together.
The bootleggers that release rare unreleased tracks are the only way you'd probably be able to get a hold of the songs. You yourself would have probably brought bootlegs to hear Carnival Of Sound. So in actual fact your whole background into Jan and Deans Carnival Of Sound would have derived from the bootleg product.
Now 1WALLY1 has put it out there that Dean may be on an emerald city bandits single thru dubious sources but who cares it may unravel something interesting. It is more than likely gonna be wrong, he knows it, and I know it but in the end it doesn't matter because there'll be some one out there that will resolve it just like smjwalsh did. Your clinical historical approach did not resolve the matter it came from someone who accidentally came across something and put a matter to rest.Amen. If your in doubt apply the Salzburg Surf Scene theory, that is put it out there and somehow somewhere someone will work it out and more than likely not thru clinical research. And if all else fails just credit it to Arnie Ginsburg.
Now to more important has anyone purchased any Arnie Ginsburg designed furniture lately.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 06:38:25 AM by BlackSea »

Surfin Again

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2014, 08:02:59 AM »
anyone who comes on here with ill-informed posts meant to provoke will get an in-kind response.
Probably no-one on here (except you) is a historian. Now that's not a bad thing to be at all

But you shouldn't forget that all these people don't have access to stuff that you have

And you shouldn't forget what rock 'n' roll is all about. We used to hang around in small muggy record shops, looking for that elusive Jan & Dean gem that might have been hidden within all that trash in the shelves. We have been digging through 10.000s of pages of Goldmine magazine to find that one last missing picture sleeve

As BlackSea said, bootlegs have been an important part of an artist's history, a lot of times the artists themselves approved them. It was the only way to hear stuff that would have been lost otherwise or to bring together a collection of tracks that regular record companies just wouldn't have been able to issue

In the end, it doesn't matter if a song is credited to be written by a Mr. Hunt or a Mr. Berry. The only important thing is to be able to listen to that song. To enjoy the music. And to have fun (Oh, here's that bad word again ...  ;) )

We all are looking forward to your reference books but they won't change Jan & Dean's history or their achievements in the history of rock 'n roll

BlackSea

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2014, 09:31:42 AM »
Hear Here Surfin Again that's the way it was breaking your back looking thru the back section of a record store or an antique store tryin to find a Jan and Dean rarities. And how would you find about these records thru home made fanzines from dedicated J & D collectors. There was no Internet media to gather information there was no eBay available to get that last 45 you needed. You're right it was, I'm gonna use that word, FUN . The information you got back then was thru word and mouth and the publication of these home made fanzines. Some of the information may have been dubious but it wasn't out of lack of trying.
Dude it was Fun Fun Fun and that's the Jan and Dean Story version.
Until next time Tidal wave the market with those Ktel recordings lets see a new generation of Jan and Dean fans.

Surfin Again

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2014, 09:48:36 AM »
it was breaking your back looking thru the back section of a record store or an antique store tryin to find a Jan and Dean rarities
True. Remember the smell of those old vinyl records?

And how would you find about these records thru home made fanzines from dedicated J & D collectors
I still got all of them shelved in my basement

There was no Internet media to gather information there was no eBay available to get that last 45 you needed
Internet is great. But it's lacking the dirt out of rock 'n' roll

lets see a new generation of Jan and Dean fans
I have a picture of my daughter, being about six months old and wearing my "Jan & Dean Bel Air Bandits 69" t-shirt!


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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2014, 04:27:14 PM »

I've never been big on the collector end, but I did enjoy hitting the record shops in the '80s, when you could flip through huge bins of LPs. It was always a joy to find something, because the search was often fruitless. I found Folk 'n Roll and others that way, before the Internet.

The "fun" part of Rock 'n Roll is a given, from my perspective. But beyond that, digging for documentary evidence that will shed new light on a neglected artist's career is a rewarding pastime.

It does matter whether Jan wrote a song or not. They add to his legacy; but his recordings of other people's compositions are important, too.

Salzburg Surf Scene

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Re: Jan and Dean Outside Projects Pre 66
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2014, 05:37:21 AM »
Probably no-one on here (except you) is a historian. Now that's not a bad thing to be at all
You'd be surprised!

Not trying to be a peace-maker, 'cos I quite enjoy the passionate posts - but I don't necessarily see there being a conflict between the "dry historical facts" and the fun. Okay, like Mark I am (well, was til the University contract ended - just try getting work as a historian during a recession!) a historian, and I do think the facts matter. As a fan, I want to understand the development of the music, because it affects how I listen to/appreciate it. I enjoy the music more when I see that part of the genius is that J&D could combine the fun with groundbreaking techniques and subversive lyrics. As an (aspiring) songwriter I have great fun - as I reckon Jan did - trying to combine what appears to be innocent fun with something more complex.

Surfin Again - you refer to "what the music is all about" - I know you've been working with surf music a long time and have contributed to my own collection, and you're an expert in your own right. To be honest, a lot of serious academic research is just like record collecting - you spend hours, years even, going through archives, or weeks on an archaeological dig, just to find that "something" - and you never know what you're looking for until you find it. Just like those great days in the 80s and early 90s, trawling through the record stores of Soho and Camden, hoping to find that gem which no one else even knows about. A great part of the fun is the extra stuff you find - on a dig or in a record shop - not what you were looking for but something that is even better. A number of the academic articles I have written, just like some of the best records in my collection, are things I came across by accident. To be honest, record collectors and historians are remarkably similar; both are obsessive, usually about something that other people don't quite get.

Will many people care? Well, 90% of the work produced by university historians is read by fewer people than post on this messegeboard. People quite literally spend 3 or 4 years writing a book that less than 20 people will read. That's the reality of serious research. If we judge it only by the number of people who buy the books then we would only value the biographies of reality TV "stars". Will it change Rock and Roll history, and give J&D their rightful place in that history? Probably not - but we should not forget that it was an article in a magazine which inspired the movie which in turn was the basis for the J&D revival in Phase 2.