Author Topic: wikipedia  (Read 10450 times)

jdman

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wikipedia
« on: March 19, 2011, 06:57:35 AM »
I was just reading wikipedia about Jan & Dean. There seems to be a strange sentence that appears to have been put in there from a Beach Boy fan. The prior sentence says that Jan and Brian collaborated on 12 hits and album cuts for Jan & Dean., including the number one hit "Surf City".
Then the next sentence says, Brian Wilson wrote Surf City.
What a freaken idiot. Do these people have a problem with the fact that Brian actually worked with Jan.
Anyway, it's the weekend. I'll try not to get stressed.

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 10:15:20 AM »

Wikipedia is a joke. Anyone can change the text at will, without any qualification or knowledge of the subject matter.

Anyone who reads Wikipedia expecting to learn the truth about a subject is delusional.

Salzburg Surf Scene

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2011, 05:08:06 AM »
The solution is simple. Log on to the Beach Boys wiki entry, and add a few sentences describing how Mike Love was the artistic genius of the band, and only gave Brian songwriting credits because he felt sorry for him... and as soon as Brian took over the songwriting, the record was never finished (SMiLE!).  ;D

I think there's a serious point behnd this. A lot of the BB fans I have known have tended to be on the obsessive side (okay, I count myself as a BB fan, but probably wouldn't put them in my top 5 bands - which is blasphemy to some out there). I think the point is, in Europe at least, the BBs have (certainly since the 80s) been a rather uncool band. They don't have the kudos that the Beatles or Stones have, and as a result some of the fans have become somewhat defensive. I used to be a member of the UK BBs fan club, but eventually stopped renewing my membership in the early 90s because there was so much petty bashing of anyone who tarnished the BW legend (esp. Mike!). Some of them seemed to genuinely resent the success of Kokomo, as if they wanted the rest of the band to fail.

Their attitude to J&D is usually patronising and/or dismissive. Hence any success J&D had was because of Brian (I'm sure some of them would argue that Brian wrote Jennie Lee!). Strangely enough, I don't think (or have never heard that) the BBs themselves were dismissive of J&D, though.

positivemusic

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2011, 09:42:50 AM »
That's the sad part about this ridiculous feud that goes on, mostly from The Beach Boys' side. There was never any bad blood between The Beach Boys and Jan & Dean. Brian and Jan were a dynamic, effective creative force and people should just leave it at that. They both learned tremendously from each other.
A lot of Jan's chart successes had Brian's name attatched in some way, but just because Jan's name wasn't on any Beach Boys' releases doesn't mean his imprint wasn't there through what he taught Brian. And, though, single-wise Brian was often a co-writer, a lot of (what I consider to be) Jan's best work was done completely devoid of Brian Wilson, such as Folk 'n' Roll, "You Really Know How To Hurt A Guy", and Carnival of Sound.
So, just to make the point from what, even I would consider, a Brian Wilson devotee, Jan Berry was no slouch. And he certainly didn't need people to prop him up whatsoever. I love Jan Berry's music just about as much as I do Brian's. And wish people would recognize their musical accomplishments for what they are: their own.

maryw7

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 12:01:35 PM »
I don't think (or have never heard that) the BBs themselves were dismissive of J&D, though.
I should think not!   :) 


So, just to make the point from what, even I would consider, a Brian Wilson devotee, Jan Berry was no slouch. And he certainly didn't need people to prop him up whatsoever. I love Jan Berry's music just about as much as I do Brian's. And wish people would recognize their musical accomplishments for what they are: their own.
   Cool!   8)  ( lovin' it !! )

jdman

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2011, 03:33:15 PM »
Great responses! I couldn't agree more. Some of the most complimentary comments about Jan Berry's talent and abilities were given by members of the Beach Boys. Al Jardine and Mike Love both admit that Jan & Dean's early records had a major influence on the Beach Boys. Of Course, Brian himself admits to Jan's influence on him as a producer. If the band can praise Jan, how can the BB fans not believe it.
There was even one historian that said P.F Sloan saved Jan & Dean on Fold N Roll. Like those 2 Sloan songs were the only good songs on that album. Jan wrote and produced some great music on that album, especially I Cant Wait to Love You. And as far as I Found a Girl, Sloan wrote it but Jan made that song the hit it was and it should've been bigger. I still think that song is one of Jan's all time best arrangements and productions.
So there are a lot of people that just can't accept the fact that Jan was a major influence on Brian, Sloan, Zeckley, Usher, and so many other producers and singers. And most of those people are big Beach Boy fans, including the historian I just mentioned.

Salzburg Surf Scene

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 11:46:54 AM »
Quite right jdman.

Typical are the reviews of J&D albums on this site:
http://www.beachboys.com/jandean.html

The reviewer is genrally sympathetic - and he clearly has listened to the records. But his entire attitude is one of condescension. A few sample lines (Warning - stop reading here is easily annoyed!):

"J&D were never truly on a level with Brian Wilson's compositions. "

"Jan & Dean's first album, released on Dore in 1959, shows the sound of the duo firmly rooted in doo-wop and rock, with driving bass lines reminiscent of Mike Love's contributions to the Beach Boys" (!)

"Surf City - which was a song that Brian had given them out of friendship"

The review of Folk n Roll completely misses the point: the reviewer appreciates the humour on earlier albums, but really doesn't get it on "Hang on Sloopy", and generally seems to imply that you can't mix humour and Folk rock (which is more a statement about Folk Rock than about J&D, when you think about it!)

To be fair, he does acknowledge that the influence works both ways:
"the two groups decades-long friendship - a musical combination which benefitted both bands - from Brian Wilson, Jan & Dean got many of their most popular hits, while Brian adopted Jan & Dean's use of session players to augment the Beach Boys studio work, and also, to a degree, borrowed the duo's sound to build upon".

But all in all, the general tone is of an older brother: appreciative and patronising. The point is, there are relatively few websites which comprehensively review all the J&D albums, and so when one is written from such a perspective, it will further the myth that J&D were merely in the shadow of Brian Wilson.

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 12:10:00 PM »
Beach Boy fanatics labor under the delusion that Wilson just "gave" completed songs to Jan & Dean. Not true. They were collaborations between Jan and Brian (and others).

Plus, Brian only got credit for "New Girl In School" because of "Gonna Hustle You" . . . and he only got credit for "Sidewalk Surfin'" because of "Catch A Wave."

The vocals sesssions for "Ride the Wild Surf" illustrate Brian's awe and amazement at how Jan had crafted the song. I will be transcribing those exchanges between Jan & Brian in the new liner notes for the Ride the Wild Surf album.


Salzburg Surf Scene

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2011, 12:20:13 PM »
Beach Boy fanatics labor under the delusion that Wilson just "gave" completed songs to Jan & Dean. Not true. They were collaborations between Jan and Brian (and others).

Plus, Brian only got credit for "New Girl In School" because of "Gonna Hustle You" . . . and he only got credit for "Sidewalk Surfin'" because of "Catch A Wave."

The vocals sesssions for "Ride the Wild Surf" illustrate Brian's awe and amazement at how Jan had crafted the song. I will be transcribing those exchanges between Jan & Brian in the new liner notes for the Ride the Wild Surf album.

Can't wait to read that - its good that someone is setting the record straight at long last!

jdman

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2011, 05:48:58 PM »
Man, this guy kills me.  Brian gave Surf City out of friendship!   Brian sang falsetto on Little Old Lady from Pasadena???  When he mentioned Barbara Ann, why was Dean not mentioned.
This guy almost sounds like he thinks the Beach Boys were first. He actually said that Jan & Dean's early records were reminisent of Mike Freaken Love!!! Come ON! Mike Love was in the Jan & Dean fan club for 4 years before he started recording. Wow!!!!  You ruined my day! lol  I'll survive.

jdman

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Re: wikipedia
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2011, 05:52:49 PM »
One more thing, and then I'll put this to rest, at least for today. Why do these historians give Jan full credit for co-writing all the other Berry/Wilson songs, but they can't give him credit for Surf City? Is it because it was a number 1 hit and they just can't believe Jan could've co-written that? The label says Berry/Wilson. How do they NOT see that!