Author Topic: RRHOF  (Read 14796 times)

jdman

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RRHOF
« on: September 29, 2010, 06:08:18 AM »
I just saw that Darlene Love(He's a Rebel) and Dr John are being considered for the Rock Hall of Fame. How can these artists go before Jan Berry and Jan & Dean? Darlene Love didn't write or produce anything that I know of and Dr John is famous down here in Louisiana, but do any of you know about him??
Is Jan & Dean even being looked at??

wintersdawn

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2010, 07:50:44 AM »
That does seem strange, I haven't even heard of those two you mentioned.

I guess its one of two things, either they are a good duo, wrongly under-rated or they are not so good and don't deserve the recognition.  I believe it is the first one but I hope there isn't some other reason why they don't seem to get noticed. 

Even Liberty/Capitol don't seem to do much with them, with only one official re-issue done on CD of the original albums and that seemed to be done by another label (One Way) and only manufactured by Capitol.  When you compare this with The Beach Boys re-issues they are 'official' Capitol releases and have been done twice over on CD over the years with new remastering each time.


 

jdman

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 09:55:53 AM »
Wintersdawn, thanks for the reply. I don't want to compare Jan & Dean's re-issues to that of the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys were much more commercial and will get more attention. I just don't get why these other little artists get more love than a duo that had many more hits, influenced the entire West Coast sound and punk rock. Arranged and produced his own records plus co-wrote most of them. Taught Brian Wilson, Gary Zeckley, Phil Sloan and others how to produce a clean record. Yeah, Dr John and Darlene Love get in before Jan Berry!!!! Are you kidding me??

wintersdawn

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2010, 10:22:19 AM »
I think it would have lifted their profile a bit if Liberty/Capitol had done more with the releases but of course I do agree that The Beach Boys are in a different league commercially.

I also agree that Jan Berry's credentials would seem to put him in good stead for the RRHOF.  I wonder if after his accident Jan & Dean sort of faded out and that is part of the reason?  Still, I would have thought that their achievements would still be 'known' to the powers that be who choose candidates for the RRHOF (I'm not sure how this is arrived at, anyone know what the process involves?).

woodshedstudio

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 05:22:22 AM »
Dr. John had one huge hit in the early 70's... maybe beyond that he might have influenced a number of piano players. Not really sure he'd even be considered a "rock-and-roller".

Darlene Love on the other hand sang many lead vocals (credited and mostly uncredited) on many a hit song. And did countless backup vox for other artists. I think for much of the 60's (and probably 70's) she was a very in demand session singer (much like the wrecking crew). I can, at least, see her nomination and wouldn't begrudge her induction.

Having said all that, J&D are a no-brainer... but then, I'm not sure there is a brain present at the HOF. Am I to read this correctly,  J&D have never even been nominated??

matt

wintersdawn

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 11:06:16 AM »
Maybe it's because Jan & Dean tended to jump on the bandwagon of other peoples ideas and didn't forge their own sound/approach i.e. surf & car songs.  Maybe if they had moved forward with their own sound after their doo-wop period (assuming that was original) they would have more credibility?

Also maybe it was the novelty/comedy factor in some of their songs that meant that people didn't take them seriously.

If true, it is a shame as I believe these qualities shouldn't preclude them from being nominated and indeed chosen for the RRHoF.

 

jdman

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 12:40:53 PM »
I know Darlene Love did a lot of songs as a session singer. I'm not putting her down.
As far as bandwagon, I think most artists jump on some bandwagon. Elvis copied a lot of songs. The Beach Boys sang about a new subject but took sounds from Jan & Dean and esp Chuck Berry( listen to Surfin USA and Fun Fun Fun and compare to Sweet Little 16 and Roll Over Beetoven). It's hard to be completely original. But Jan's production techniques were largely original. Jennie Lee, I never heard anything like that. Pop Symphony-original. I think the bandwagon thing is over-stated.

2dean2

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 01:43:15 PM »
Jan & Dean was the CA sound a couple of years before the Beach Boy's .
I' ve said it here before and I'll say it again . They are not in the Hall due to politics and songs like Universal Coward (pro Namm song).
Jan Berry did more than most of the artist in the Hall . He was the ONLY artist in the R&R  era to write,  arrange,  produce and sang on his records.
He was responsible for getting together the best Rhythm Section in the biz " The Wrecking Crew. " Like Buddy Holly and Otis Redding no one will ever know how far he and Dean couldve gone [Hit TV show] ..... But you never hear that about Jan not in the media like Buddy . Here yes. But thats us , fans to the max.

wintersdawn

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 01:54:06 PM »
I' ve said it here before and I'll say it again . They are not in the Hall due to politics and songs like Universal Coward (pro Namm song).

An interesting thought, however do you 'know' that those who choose the RRHoF candidates are anti-Vietnam and so therefore would be offended by a song such as Universal Coward?  Seems to me that along with 'Only A Boy' that such songs would be quite patriot to the U.S. 

Ban n Bean

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2010, 09:33:10 PM »
Let's see: The RnRHoF messed up royally with The Dave Clark 5, they messed up with Jan & Dean, they continue to mess up.  No reason to believe the situation will change.  The list of those artists becoming eligible through 2019 reads like a horror story but not quite as bad as the horror story of worthy artists dying before they're inducted because of prideful politics, ratings, media attention, whatever...

End of rant.

2dean2

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2010, 10:21:45 PM »
Picked up an issue of Rolling Stone in the last decade ? Nothing but politics. And anti right at that. I've seen no other legit offerings to explain why an artist like J&D would be excluded .
Jan would almost deserve it for the Second Phase portion of his comeback alone . The true def of Rock and Roll will never die !
The sales
The hits
The inovativeness
The inventivness
Popularity
 I rest my case


Mark A. Moore

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 11:17:08 PM »
Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone is the Gate-keeper of the Hall of Fame.

Lots of Left-leaning people do not agree with the HOF's "choices" . . . the whole thing is BS -- even if J&D eventually get in.

wintersdawn

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2010, 01:04:55 AM »
Great conversation!  So glad I joined this forum, even though I am a relatively new Jan & Dean fan. 

Sounds like this RRHoF issue is made more complex if decisions are driven by politics.  I guess Jan & Dean may get in when this changes and perhaps different people are in charge. 

So candidates/inductees into the RRHoF are chosen only when they fit into a certain box, but then I would doubt that many would get in?

2dean2

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2010, 02:14:42 PM »
THey have a habit of seeing how many times they can put the same artist in.
" This years RRHOF's humanitarian induction goes to BONO" .......
Can anyone tell me if Tommy Tedesco has gotten in as sidemen cat yet ?
Oh and one more "reason" I was listening to Jim Bohanon not sure of the spelling interviewing Brian Wilson the other night and a caller asked if there was any artist not in the hall that should be . His reply was basicallly none that he could think of . As a member dont they vote for inductees ? Could it be he doesnt pay enough attention to know J&D arent in yet?

Bitman

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Re: RRHOF
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2010, 10:47:48 PM »
Jan & Dean's politics have nothing to do with them being excluded.  These numbskulls on the hall of fame board have hardly heard of Jan & Dean, let alone know where they stood politically or that Jan recorded a couple pro-war songs.  That having been said, I've said it here before - Jan & Dean will likely never enter the hall.  Not that they don't deserve it and there are plenty of other artists deserving as well that won't make it.  But look at this year's nominees...LL Cool J?  Seriously?  Heck, Miles Davis is already in.  Here's the deal.  The nominating committee is made of ultra-hip record industry types.  They want to sell product, so they nominate acts that are largely still active or have a major hipness factor that's going to move product for them.  They throw in a couple of 50's/60's acts to make it seem legit.  But, basically these guys on the board think they're too cool for school, so this is the crap that's going to get nominated every year.  The rules state you have to have released a record 25 years ago for consideration.  The unwritten rule is if your first record came out over 35 years ago you can pretty much forget it.