Author Topic: Arnie Ginsburg  (Read 3129 times)

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Arnie Ginsburg
« on: February 13, 2011, 06:26:15 am »
It strikes me how little we - as the J&D community - ever even mention Arnie. While on a certain level thats logical - i.e. he wasn't a member of J&D! - I do think he is somewhat akin to David Marks, Stuart Sutcliffe or Pete Best: the third member! In some sense, he has been written out of the J&D story - although according to some accounts this was by his own doing (I read that he wanted his character written out of the "Deadman's Curve" movie).

As has been pointed out on these boards, Jan & Arnie were a very different act from J&D - I think 2dean2 once mentioned how Jan & Arnie are singing to one another and Jan & Dean are singing to the listener. I think, to judge by the music, Arnie had a very different relationship with Jan than Dean did. How different would the music have been had Arnie stayed, perhaps even forming a trio? Could he have stayed - was he more headstrong that Dean, perhaps making the working relationship with Jan more difficult?

I do think, however, that Arnie was a musical talent in his own right. The story that he quit the band because he disliked the music industry is partly contradicted by the fact he did try his hand at a number of other recordings, including a single with Bruce Johnston. What started me thinking about this, however, is coming across two tracks he recorded (I assume in 1959ish?), but which, as far as I know, were not released. Both, I think, are oustanding songs:

"Kathy Cryin' Heart" is a catchy number, laced with the ironic humour (even innuendo? - alongside the faux-arrogance of the lead vocal, there is a playful undercurrent) so prevalent in later J&D records. How can you not love a song with the spoken interlude:
"That girl has no looks, and no personality; but she does have feelings, and thats why I took her to the dance...so that she might have one good time"!

"Catching Spies" is a raw sounding garage number - foreshadowing the garage style which would flourish in the 60s.

So I wondered where people think Arnie stands in the J&D story, and what role he played their development. I know Mark has interviewed Arnie, and can shed more light on this than anyone else. But I do get the impression that Arnie did play an important role, that his musical skill and humour were a significant part of what later became J&D. Moreover, I think he was a talented musician in his own right, as these two tracks show. They are original, catchy, and despite their apparent simplicity are exceedingly well put together. In a sense, I suspect they were a bit too ahead of their times for 1959. Much as I love the Doo-wop style J&D were pioneering in 1959, I think Arnie was on to something really interesting.


Arnie Ginsburg - Kathy Cryin' Heart


Arnie Ginsburg - Catching Spies


Mark A. Moore

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2011, 07:50:41 am »

Yes, I've interviewed both Arnie Ginsburg and Joe Lubin, extensively. Each will have a substantial voice in Jan Berry's biography. You'll get to hear from them in their own words.

Arnie left by his own choosing. But he wasn't a replacement while Dean was in the reserves.

Jan & Arnie were a huge act, right out of the gate. They appeared on major national television programs, performed at major venues like the Hollywood Bowl, and toured with some of the biggest names in music at the time. They were also covered in the teen rags.

Dean Torrence had been a friend throughout; but there was no such thing as Jan & Dean until Arnie left.


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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2011, 08:11:04 am »

Not sure if there's a title on Frank Kisko's acetate, but the lyric sounds like "Kathy cryin hard."

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2011, 09:29:55 am »
Cheers Mark. I can't wait to read it!

Jan & Arnie were a huge act, right out of the gate. They appeared on major national television programs, performed at major venues like the Hollywood Bowl, and toured with some of the biggest names in music at the time.


This is why I'm surprised just how little attention Arnie ever seems to get. Do any of these TV performances still exist? I'd love to see Jan and Arnie performing. I think the insight we get into J&D from their TV slots is crucial (my girlfriend only really understood my fascinantion with J&D after I made her sit through the TV performances and "On the Run"). I guess the same would be true of J&A.

Mark A. Moore

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 05:19:03 am »

There's footage of Jan & Arnie on the Jack Benny Show in the archives at UCLA. But you have to go there in person to see it.

We tried really hard, working with the producers, to get it for the Jan & Dean episode of A&E's Biography, back when I worked on the program in 2002. But they wouldn't budge. If I recall correctly, there was some kind of policy from Benny's estate restricting its use.

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 07:32:22 pm »
Ok now we know why Jan went with Dean . He sounds way to British before it was cool to sound British.

smjwalsh

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2012, 10:57:11 am »
I have found this discussion interesting. The last few days I have been updating the wikipedia article on Jan and Dean, especially in the Barons and Jan & Arnie sections. I see that it is conjectured that Arnie recorded "Kathy Cryin' Heart" b/w "Cathing Spies".

However, I have discovered that another singer (Alan Burn) recorded and released those 2 songs (Kathy Cryin' Heart b/w Catchin' Spies) by a faux group called Far North on his own Tuesday Records label ca. 1966. Burn is credited as the song writer. and also arranger. See http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-i-NX0rBkLSo/TxYO7VkU38I/AAAAAAAAARQ/-f1sKaS0GNQ/s1600/aburn_catchin.jpg
http://squishymorph.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/in-search-of-alan-burn-lost-garage-rock.html

Any thoughts?

How do we know Arnie recorded those songs and that someone has not mistaken Alan Burn for Arnie's voice?

Steve

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2012, 02:20:46 pm »

Good find, Steve . . . Do you own the record? Can you play the 45? . . . One playback would erase all doubt.

smjwalsh

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2012, 08:35:26 am »

Good find, Steve . . . Do you own the record? Can you play the 45? . . . One playback would erase all doubt.

I don't own the record but there are youtube videos as above. What do you think?

Steve

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2012, 08:50:47 am »
Here's what I have included in the J&D wikipedia article re: Arnie Ginsburg:
"By the end of the year, when Torrence had completed his six-month stint at Fort Ord, Ginsburg had become disenchanted with the music business. Ginsburg enrolled in the School of Architecture and Design at the University of Southern California, and graduated in the field of product design in 1966. After graduation, Ginsburg worked for several noted Los Angeles architects, among them Charles Eames.[43] In December 1973 he was granted a U.S. Patent for a table he designed.[44] Arn Ginsburg moved to Santa Barbara, California in 1975, where he worked as an architectural designer,[45] designing the innovative Ginsburg House.[46] In September 1976 Ginsburg and Michael W. O'Neill were granted a patent for a portable batting cage.[47]"

Arnold P. "Arnie" Ginsburg (born November 19, 1939).

Any corrections needed?

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 03:46:23 pm »

Looks good to me.

Their voices do sound similar. Hopefully, someone will post the Burn recordings in question.

I believe the Arnie claim originates from Frank Kisko's acetate collection.

smjwalsh

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 06:20:30 am »
Thanks.

Perhaps Frank can indicate source of his claim - wherher it is an acetate he has or not.

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Re: Arnie Ginsburg
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2012, 04:32:22 pm »

He definitely has the acetate, but I'm not sure where he got that it was Arnie.