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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Surf City collaboration
« Last post by jdman on June 20, 2019, 04:06:41 AM »
Thank you Mark! I'd like to make one more point about song writing. I've written a few. None of them went to number 1. lol but there were times when a friend suggested I change a word here and there. The song was already written, musically and lyrically. I don't think a word change constitutes writers credit. Surf City contains over 170 words. If you count the repeated words, it's over 200. If Dean changed a couple of words, that's only 1% of the lyrics. When you count the music, then it's less than .5% of the song. So if Dean indeed made those suggestions, then he can always say he did his small part to help the song have credibility. But does .5% constitute writers credit? I don't think it does. Surf City was written by Jan Berry and Brian Wilson. There was no reason to credit anyone else. Like Mark said, this was determined before the song was released.
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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Surf City collaboration
« Last post by Mark A. Moore on June 19, 2019, 02:51:21 PM »
Jan was writing toward fulfilling the terms of his songwriting contract with Nevins-Kirshner (which was in the process of changing over to Screen Gems), and they viewed Jan as the principal creator of product for the company. He had quotas to meet. A documented fact. Jan was free to work with collaborators, so long as they understood that Screen Gems would be the publisher.

The fact that Brian was comfortable enough to collaborate with Jan—on a song that originated with Brian—knowing full well that Sea of Tunes would not be able to claim the publishing, is telling. Brian understood that Screen Gems would be the publisher, per the terms of Jan’s contract, which indicates Brian’s level of comfort with Jan’s creative input.

Jan and Brian split the songwriting royalty for “Surf City” 50-50 (the publishing royalty was separate, which is why Murry Wilson flipped out). The copyright for “Surf City” was filed on May 13, 1963, four days before the song was released.

Questions to ponder . . .

There was no way to know that “Surf City” would become a hit, let alone reach #1. So why would Jan want to deprive Dean of credit prior to release? Especially since they had co-written half of their first album together.

Why would Dean get credit for songs like “Bucket ‘T,’” “Schlock Rod,” and “Old Ladies Seldom Powershift,” but not the majority of other songs in the Jan & Dean canon?

If Dean co-wrote “Surf City,” he should have received credit. But there is no basis for minimizing Jan’s contribution. There’s a reason he was the one signed to the production companies as a songwriter, both Nevins-Kirshner and successor Screen Gems.

And remember, Roger Christian also claimed to have co-written “Surf City” . . . after it hit #1.
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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Surf City collaboration
« Last post by Surfermike on June 19, 2019, 11:52:17 AM »
I remember when Michael “Doc Rock” Kelly interviewed Dean years ago in his Sunshine Music fanzine. Just as he mentioned in his latest book, Dean corrected a lot of the words to make more sense with the surfing lingo he was familiar with. According to him, collaborating and changing a few words in a novel like War and Peace is very insignificant, but not in a 2 minute and 24 second song with just a few lines in it. He should have received writers credit along with Berry and Wilson. I’m surprised that Jan wasn’t that generous towards Dean. As for Brian, it’s well known he omitted Mike Love’s name from many songs. Unfortunately, I guess we’ll never know how much Jan or Brian wrote lyrically or musically. Thankfully, Dean knew to put in the proper surfing terms of that era.
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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Surf City collaboration
« Last post by jdman on June 19, 2019, 04:34:24 AM »
Listening to Dean's interviews, past and present, one can get confused. Dean has said recently that he has no idea what Jan wrote and that he(Dean) wrote more of Surf City than Jan did. In other interviews He's stated that Brian wrote 50%, Jan wrote 35% and he wrote 15%. He's also stated that he has no idea what happened when Jan and Brian met privately, which is probably accurate. The lyrics were written in Brian's handwriting, but that does not mean that Jan wasn't sitting next to him sharing ideas. Brian and Jan have both stated that they were at a piano banging out keys and writing together. So I guess it's hard to figure out exactly what Jan wrote, but I'd assume he contributed significantly. Any thoughts?
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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: 1966 concert
« Last post by surferbee on April 12, 2019, 02:14:01 AM »
It is all speculation of course. Jan and Dean were undoubtedly at a crossroads. Music was changing. The Beach Boys were changing. Whilst this was going on Jan was running down the Liberty contract and it showed in some of the music but there were signs that he was looking to a different future. 'Girl You're Blowing My Mind' was an insight into that. Of course the accident cut into all of that.
For me? Well Jan had been writing and recording since 1958 and seemed to be in for the long term if his medical training didn't take him away!
Jan - with or without Dean - would have needed to change - but he had a strong track record of doing that. The accident robbed us of ever knowing. Of course if Jan had been drafted that might have meant another ending altogether!
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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: 1966 concert
« Last post by jdman on April 11, 2019, 04:51:21 AM »
Good points Spazzatron. At the time, Jan & Dean should have been ahead of Sonny and Cher and Mama's if you look at chart success historically. But 1966 was in transition and Jan and Dean were on the wrong end of that. Popsicle was certainly an indication that they still had potential for chart success in 66. I would think a TV show promoting Fan Tan and Hawaii would have put Jan & Dean back in the top 20 or even top 10. Who knows. but judging from their strained relationship at the time, I really don't think they would have lasted much longer anyway.
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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: 1966 concert
« Last post by Spazzatron on April 10, 2019, 12:47:44 PM »
I've thought about this before, and I think it would've had a significant impact on whether Jan & Dean continued into '67.  They were still a popular act and had a couple of Top Forty hits in '65, but their last entry in the Top Twenty had been 1964's Ride the Wild Surf.  To my thinking, regardless of how their television show was received by the public, if none of their new material could break into the Top 20 it would no longer be worth their time, and both Jan and Dean would probably move on.  They definitely had an opportunity to remake their brand and break back into the charts with their new show, but in early '66 they were still perceived as surf rock, which didn't help as that trend was losing interest.  The tv show could've helped to rebrand them as sunshine pop, promote new material, maybe bring in quality outside songwriters and increase their presence, all of which their act needed at this juncture.  Given that Popsicle hit #21 with no public support it was possible, but they needed the right material released at the right time or it just wasn't going to happen.  I've also read a story about Jan being incensed about J&D being placed beneath both Sonny & Cher and The Mamas & The Papas for their Hollywood Bowl appearance in '66, but this is the reality he was facing at the time of the accident.
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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: 1966 concert
« Last post by jdman on April 10, 2019, 04:16:36 AM »
Ok, I just found it in The Jan and Dean Record. April 5. Apparently, they were touring a lot. They had shows 3 or 4 nights in a row from Missouri to Ohio to Chicago. It was a Batman theme with the Markets.
What a life! Jan must've been miserable. All this and studying for Med School. and the kids were starting to lose interest. This had to be a tough period for Jan.
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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / 1966 concert
« Last post by jdman on April 09, 2019, 10:20:38 AM »
Someone posted on FB a story that he remembers a concert in April of 66. Jan and Dean with the Markets. He said only 100 people went. That surprises me. I know Jan and Dean were on a down turn right before the accident but they were only a year and a half removed from huge success and had a few top 30s in between. I guess kids had short memories back then
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DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Jans production
« Last post by Spazzatron on April 02, 2019, 09:06:16 AM »
I have a good deal of footage of Jan and I working at Al's Red Barn studio recording Second Wave.  I can transfer it from VHS and upload it if there's enough interest in seeing it.

Rob


I am definitely interested.
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