Jan & Dean: Official Message Board for Jan Berry

JAN & DEAN => DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT => Topic started by: Moon Dawg on June 29, 2014, 04:28:25 PM

Title: What If ?
Post by: Moon Dawg on June 29, 2014, 04:28:25 PM
  Where were Jan & Dean headed, as an artistic entity and commercial force, in early 1966? What do you see happening to the duo, if in some alternate universe, the events of April 12 1966 never occurred? No crash on Dead Man's Curve, Jan healthy.

  I have a couple of theories. Singles sales/chart positions were down after the heady success of 1963-64. Were they tapped out as a hit singles act? Would Jan have gone forward as a solo act?

  It's also likely that Jan was headed toward CARNIVAL OF SOUND. It would have probably been fully realized, recorded, and released sometime in 1967.

 As it is, we'll never know. Just idle speculation on a Sunday evening.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Mike1965 on June 29, 2014, 08:37:14 PM
I think if you look at the direction the Beach Boys went, in, out, back in again briefly on the top 40 after the same period you have your answer but I think Jan & Dean would have been similar on a smaller scale.  Also, Jan & Dean never thought  their fame would last either and that is why they both went to college even during the height of their fame. 
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: jdman on June 30, 2014, 05:46:33 AM
Yeah, certainly the original concept of Filet of Soul and Batman wasn't going to work. Carnival of Sound may have worked, but we'll never know. Of course, if the pilot On the Run would have worked, then you'd have a new audience for Jan & Dean. That could've started a whole new thing, probably in the bubble gum genre. They weren't really getting along, though. I'd guess that Jan would have continued to produce and then practiced medicine while Dean would've done exactly what he did. A healthy Jan certainly would have made a 70's or 80's comeback even more successful and possibly a new studio album.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: 2dean2 on June 30, 2014, 11:23:03 AM
Well I never thought you could use the last year or so before Jan's accident to measure their future . Too much going on the movie /train wreck , the On the Run pilot...
We will never know how the show would've went. Or if Jan would've given it all up to practice medicine. I also think their was a lot of guy's around Jan that were doing their best to get Dean out of the picture . They just could not understand how the entertainment biz works. Dean was there for a reason. Lou knew it the "Suits" knew it and as smart as Jan was he knew it. Friendships have there peaks and valley's And when you mix in business a lot more valley's .
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Actorman on July 02, 2014, 08:30:07 AM
I believe "Jan & Dean" as a recording act would probably have slowly been phased out by the end of the 60s and Jan would have turned his attention more to writing and producing.  I could see him having gone the Peter Asher or Snuff Garrett route and producing a string of hits for other artists through the 70s and 80s.  I could also see him partnering with Lou Adler in his nightclub and multi-media ventures.  The J&D record label never really had a chance to get off the ground due to the accident, but with some guidance from friends like Lou and Herb Alpert, I think there was real potential for Jan to have had some success as a label owner as well.

Jan was so smart, talented and most importantly, connected, that I really believe he would have become a major player in the business.   
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Kentucky Surfer on July 04, 2014, 02:24:49 PM
Some will disagree with this...but here goes.

There always seemed to be a lot of tension in Jan & Dean's relationship due to Jan's role as producer of the music.  To be fair to Jan, the results of his work are still here for all of us to hear in Jan & Dean's timeless recordings.  With regard to studio recordings, he seemed (to me) to regard Dean Torrence's voice as another musical instrument.  It appeared that Jan was always willing to find another vocalist to sing Dean's parts if Dean was not available to come to the studio at whatever hour that Jan was recording.

On "Folk & Roll", it seemed (to my ears) that Jan accomplished the album with very limited participation by Dean.  It sounded like most of Side 1 (other than "Hang On Sloopy" ) was recorded with assistance from P.F. Sloan and Steve Barri (a/k/a "The Fantastic Baggies").  Dean recorded the solo vocal on "Yesterday" and performed with Jan on "Turn Turn Turn".  The latter song confimed to me that Jan & Dean still harmonized very well.  However, it may have been during the recording of "A Beginning From An End" that Jan threw Dean out of the studio after Dean's complaints about the song.   It also appears that Dean was not a fan of "The Universal Coward" and, perhaps, did not want his name on the record.
As a result, two songs from Folk & Roll ("I Can't Wait To Love You" and "The Universal Coward") were released as a Jan Berry solo recording. 

This would seem to imply that a split was imminent.

However...

The follow-on project, "Jan & Dean Meet Batman" featured heavy involvement from Dean.  Throughout their career, it seemed (to me) that Dean played a greater role in Jan & Dean's comedic persona than he did in their recording career.  The "Batman" album gave Dean a chance to shine, and perhaps the hours he and Jan spent on this album healed some of the rift that may have existed between them.  The next album, "Filet of Soul", featured more comedy and also seemed to be more of a collaboration between Jan & Dean.

 There is no way of knowing whether "On the Run" would have been picked up by ABC.  While the pilot that many of us have seen on youTube features the typical Jan & Dean humor, the dialogue seems a little tentative.  I am not convinced that ABC would have taken this show seriously except as a summer replacement show.  However, William Asher (who produced his wife, Elizabeth Montgomery, in Bewitched on ABC) may have been able to exert some influence to get the show on the air, and Dick Clark might have even put in a good word for his friends Jan & Dean. 

So, assuming that On The Run was accepted for at least a short run, it would have afforded Jan & Dean a new platform for promoting their music.  One could reasonably assume that a soundtrack album would have been issued in the wake of the show, featuring some of the silly songs like "Time And Space" as well as a few "serious" Jan & Dean songs that Jan would have produced.  Dean would have no doubt been a participant especially if the songs were used in the show.

At the same time, Jan would have been continuing his studio experiments with "Norwegian Wood" and "Louisiana Man" along with some of the tracks that are now part of "Carousel of Sound".  Liberty Records, who initially resisted "Norwegian Wood", might have changed their mind if the song had received exposure on the TV show and recieved a favorable public response.  This would have given Jan an improved bargaining position with Liberty or another prospective label.  Perhaps that would have opened the door for Jan to produce other artists.

The increased exposure that resulted from a TV show would have no doubt led to more touring opportunities for Jan & Dean.  This would have, most likely, extended their career for a couple of years.  Dean would have played a prominent role in the comedic part of the stage shows, and the talk of a split between the two would have died down.

The true test would have been whether Jan's continued musical vision would have remained commercially viable.   For a while, at least, the TV show might have assured a favorable audience for Jan & Dean's recordings.   However,  we will never know how Jan might have responded musically to The Summer of Love and Woodstock.  Carnival of Sound would have no doubt evolved from what we ultimately heard.   Would Dean have suggested any of the songs he recorded for Save For A Rainy Day?  Would Jan have listened to Dean's suggestions or ignored them?  A combination of the two albums might have been a viable release.

As the sixties wrapped up, the first signs of a rock and roll revival would have emerged.  If Jan & Dean's Top 40 career had started to stall by this point, Dean might have suggested embracing the nostalgia phase as a sound business move.  Jan, on the other hand, might have rejected such a move, preferring to focus his efforts on producing other artists and releasing singles as a solo artist.

And all of this might have been academic had Jan been inducted into the Army.  The TV shows and the tours would have been shelved, and Jan might have had to rely on Dean to keep things going. (But that is another parallel path through history...)

I guess the truth is we will never know how things would have been different had Jan not been severely injured in April 1966.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Bitman on July 07, 2014, 07:54:30 AM
It seems I recall reading an article in which Dean said the show was almost immediately picked up by ABC for the fall. He also talked about how he and Jan were hoping it wouldn't get picked up because they were already so busy with school, recording, touring, etc. Of course, the real trick would've been for Jan to extricate himself from military duty. Had fate not intervened, the TV show would almost certainly have been a major boost to J&D's chart success. Remember, back in those days there was no cable TV, only three television networks and, more importantly, no Internet to compete for attention. All eyes were on TV, all ears on radio. While not a direct comparison, look at what TV exposure did for the Monkees that fall.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Mike on July 13, 2014, 04:52:37 PM
What if the movie had been made that was started in August of 1965?  What singles  or soundtrack album would have been released? 
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Mike1965 on July 20, 2014, 06:13:22 PM
Here is another thought to ponder.  Jan was drafted and most likely would have been sent to Vietnam if not for the accident.  More than 10% of our soldiers died in combat. If Jan ended up being one the soldiers who died in Vietnam we would have not had Jan at all  for the next 38 years.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: sunny13 on July 20, 2014, 06:53:02 PM
Mike, you a point there.  I keep thinking about this over and over.  We do know how bad was Jan accident and he almost lost the leg.  Did he get any pins into his leg?  I was wondering how well Jan got and if he was able to pass the physical.   Sometimes I keep thinking about the Beach Boys, the Wilson brothers.  So, Brian didn't have to go, because his hearing was bad.  Dennis didn't had to go, because he got caught with another guy peeing into a jar, and Carl took it to the court .  That of course went for years and he was on probation, had to play in prisons and at hospitals. 
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Mike on July 20, 2014, 07:08:58 PM
What is the whole story behind Jan's medical school deferment? Why did the deferment not stay in place while Jan's leg mended and they let him back in to medical school in the fall of '66.  I think he had completed one year already,  so why not hold his spot for 1 year?    Maybe Mark's book will shed more light on this.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Mike on July 20, 2014, 07:28:32 PM
Getting back to the music, I think if Girl, your blowing my mind was in the beginning stages in the spring of 1966 and it was given the chance to be fully completed that would have been a departure for Jan and Dean. It would have been more in line with the way music was going in the 60's.   The chorus on Folk City has a little bit of that in it but maybe a little too much of the old in it as well.  It does seem that Jan and Dean were trying to find their audience some where between pre-teen to college age.  If  Batman didn't work so well for the pre-teen then maybe filet of soul would have possibly worked for a little older crowd.  But what they really could use would have been a song like Girl, your blowing my mind.  A love song for the times that were changing.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: ripplewine on July 31, 2014, 06:49:08 AM
Had Jan been drafted, I have a feeling that given his background and his unusually high intelligence, he wouldn't have been put into the infantry.  I think Jan might have joined the ranks of the support/specialist personnel, probably in the Air Force--maybe in something having to do with communications.  He might have been sent to Germany or Korea instead of Vietnam, but who knows?  The military doesn't always make the absolute best use of all its people, but I can see Jan going somewhere other than the combat arms.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Charles on August 05, 2014, 11:42:02 AM
As much as I respect their music, I think they'd shot their bolt by 1964. My hat goes off to them for keeping it going as long as they did. I got into their music around 1980, and I remember talking to a friend's dad about Jan and Dean, and he said Universal Coward turned him off their music in a big way. Can you imagine touring California in the 60's and having Universal Coward in your set? For me, that and Pop Symphony demonstrate that Jan had lost touch with popular culture.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Mike1965 on August 05, 2014, 02:47:44 PM
Jan was popular culture.  Culture in America took a turn for the worst with drugs and dirty hippies in the mid to late 1960's.  But not all artist went in that direction nor did they have too.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: sunny13 on August 05, 2014, 03:52:15 PM
Well, I like Universal Coward and when it comes to the Pop Symphony, that's a master piece.  Jan liked to explore in different directions and I don't see anything wrong with that.  Doing always the same thing can get boring.  If you look at the Beach Boys.  Some of the band members wanted to do something different,  Dennis Wilson and even his brother Carl Wilson, both tried solo careers,  and the music was completely away from the Beach Surf music. 
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Charles on August 05, 2014, 09:25:10 PM
Jan was a talented guy who knew how to make the most of fads - at least up to 1964. I'm pretty sure he didn't harbor any deep interest in surfing, skateboarding or drag racing, but  he knew enough about them to create great songs to celebrate what were then current interests. Right now I'm spinning the Folk 'n Roll album, and while I enjoy spending time with Jan and Dean, I can see why it's not an album that had much attention either then or now. Jan cared less about folk music than he did about previous fads. Yes, "dirty hippie" songs like "Turn, Turn, Turn" were not their forte, and "Folk City" was an amusing turn back of the clock. The album reached #145 in the US.

Can you imagine a 1970's era album by Jan that would have found an audience? I just gave "Mother Earth" a listen, and thought it sounded pretty good. I would have bought Jan's efforts in the 70's, but who else would have? My prediction is that, if Jan had stayed with music, by the 1970's he would have been writing jingles for commercials. More likely he would have ventured into medicine.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Mark A. Moore on August 05, 2014, 10:49:16 PM
Jan was a talented guy who knew how to make the most of fads - at least up to 1964. I'm pretty sure he didn't harbor any deep interest in surfing, skateboarding or drag racing

Not true. In the teen rags published in 1960 -- before surf music existed -- Jan and Dean both claimed surfing and hanging out at the beach as a favorite sport and pastime. In Dean's case, he was citing drag races publicly before the Beach Boys even existed.

Jan Berry owned a brand new Corvette in 1958. With "Gas Money," Jan & Arnie did a car song years before the Beach Boys existed . . . just as Chuck Berry did cars songs before Jan & Arnie.

In 1960, the picture sleeve for "We Go Together" showed Jan & Dean at the beach. In the October 1960 issue of Movie Teen Illustrated, the cover image and article showed them on the beach in Malibu.

These facts did not go unnoticed by the Beach Boys. Just ask Mike Love and Al Jardine.

A lot of people don't like "The Universal Coward" . . . which is fine, it doesn't matter. It was counter-satire in 1965. There's no accounting for personal taste (or politics). But the fact remains that "The Ballad of the Green Berets" (about soldiers fighting and dying in Vietnam) was #1 on the Billboard charts for a whopping FIVE straight weeks in 1966.

Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: BlackSea on August 06, 2014, 11:08:21 AM
As much as I respect their music, I think they'd shot their bolt by 1964. My hat goes off to them for keeping it going as long as they did. I got into their music around 1980, and I remember talking to a friend's dad about Jan and Dean, and he said Universal Coward turned him off their music in a big way. Can you imagine touring California in the 60's and having Universal Coward in your set? For me, that and Pop Symphony demonstrate that Jan had lost touch with popular culture.
Charles if you have a look at the top 40 charts from 66 to 70 you'll find that there was a great deal of pure pop songs on the charts.There was room for Jan and Dean and I think they would have continued on until the end of the decade with ease. They were still in the top 40 right after Jans accident.
Remember they had a tv show that had been picked up and it was a high budget affair not some Saturday morning kids tv show.Have a look at the credits next time you watch the pilot. Jan and Dean were active guys they could both jugle university studies and the music business and this would have continued for both Jan and Dean.
BlackSea
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Charles on August 06, 2014, 02:34:09 PM
I've been enjoying this thread, hearing people's perspectives on my favourite music duo. It could be that Jan and Dean were at the height of their overall popularity when Jan had the accident, but my take is that, from a peak in 63-64, they were cruising out of the top 40. "I Found a Girl", from 1965, is a sweet song, but who remembers it?

Where did Jan's strengths lie? I don't think he was a particularly gifted vocalist or song writer. He was a talented arranger, composer, and producer, and he might have gone on to work with other groups. The kicker here is that I suspect Jan wasn't an easy guy to work with, and that many recording artists wouldn't take kindly to a "my way or the highway" approach. He was the kind of guy that did things his way.....Universal Coward/Pop Symphonies....and as the public stopped buying, he'd have to make a choice. I could see him in the 70's working as some manner of respected medical specialist.

I wonder how things would have gone at Kittyhawk if he and Jan hadn't start touring again. I was just looking online at an impressive collection of his album covers.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: jdman on August 06, 2014, 04:27:11 PM
Charles, there is no question that the hits were not going top 10 anymore, but the quality of work was actually just as good or better. Pop Symphony was innovative and strong. It didn't sell, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a great project. You Really Know How, I Found a Girl, I Can't wait to Love You, Batman, and It's a Shame to Say Goodbye were some of Jan's best productions.  I don't know what the late 60's would have meant for Jan & Dean, but Jan was still a very viable songwriter, producer and arranger in 65-66.
It's easy to undermine Jan's projects during that period because he lost respect when the music changed. Brian Wilson gets well deserved respect for everything he touched-but the late 60's were rough on him as well commercially. In fact, I don't think Smile would have sold well if it was finished. Everyone is making a big deal out of it, but there is only a couple of songs on that album that are enjoyable and radio worthy. But at least Brian went outside of his normal group of writers and found a lyricist that was more into the new scene. Maybe Jan would've done the same.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: ripplewine on August 06, 2014, 07:35:22 PM
Good points, Jdman.  Apart from Good Vibrations and Heroes & Villains, I don't hear anything on Smile that DJs would have played, or that would have drawn the record-buying public away from the likes of Sgt. Pepper or albums by the Doors, the Stones, or the Turtles.  It was just too much of a departure from the mainstream.  I still like Smile, but I think there's a good chance it would have ended up like Pop Symphony did had Brian finished it.

Perhaps a small part of the reason for Jan & Dean's waning chart performance in '65-'66 is the fact that they were with Liberty, who had a rough time competing with more powerful labels like Capitol--Liberty didn't seem to have as much money or the talented people to devote to promoting their artists.  I think this may have compounded Jan & Dean's problems after the decline of surf/hot rod music around 1965.  But I think it's true that the material Jan & Dean were turning out during this period, good and well-produced though it was, just didn't appeal to the public as much as what they'd done in '63-'64. 

Although I think Pop Symphony is a brilliant album, I tend to side with the Liberty execs on this one.  Jan should have devoted his energy (and George Tipton's) to cranking out more new songs, like Brian Wilson and everyone else was doing, rather than repeating his earlier material in symphonic form.  I'd have saved Pop Symphony for later, after starting my own label, had I been in Jan's place. 

In the late '60s, had it not been for the accident, finding a lyricist comparable to Asher or Van Dyke Parks may have been Jan's best bet.  And working with an outside lyricist would have made it necessary for him to scale back his "my way or the highway" stance--but he'd done that before, when working with Brian Wilson.  I get the impression that Jan could be diplomatic when he needed to be.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: 2dean2 on August 07, 2014, 11:30:50 AM
Ok first off . P S was 'nt done to be comercially viable . it  was to teach young people about music . Instead of 100 yr old songs you have recent hit's . Done like 100 yr old songs. Every artist has a down time Jan's train wreck and TV pilot was a big factor in theirs. I think Jan & Dean would've done well as they would've gone with the flow listen to the later stuff . He was changing their sound to the times as he did with DOO WOP and the "Surf Falsetto " stuff.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: ripplewine on August 07, 2014, 06:30:28 PM
I totally understand that; it's one of the things that makes Pop Symphony brilliant--giving young students material that they could better relate to, as well as showing critics that, in Jan's words, "they are making music like they used to."  Plus, all of the tracks sound terrific, with each one done in a different musical style.  But at the same time, I can see why Liberty was unhappy about it; record companies exist for one reason only:  to make money by selling records.  They signed Jan & Dean in the first place to do just that.  All of a sudden here they were, spending a huge amount of Liberty's money making a record that probably everyone knew was going to end up being a tax write-off.  Meanwhile, across town, the Beach Boys (and the Beatles, too) were raking in the dough with new singles and albums for Capitol, their competitors!  It's probably one of the reasons that Liberty were hostile to some of Jan & Dean's later projects, such as Filet of Soul and Jan's version of Norwegian Wood.

I definitely agree that Jan demonstrated an ability to change with the times--there's a good chance they'd have made it through the Sixties OK; as far as I know they never had any personal problems like LSD use that would have hampered their abilities.  And even Buddy Holly suffered a slump in popularity, toward the end of his career.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Bitman on August 07, 2014, 07:47:12 PM
One cannot underestimate the impact of having a weekly TV series as J&D were going to have in the fall of '66. While their sales had been slumping, they would've been no doubt inundated with quality material from top songwriters as the Monkees were.  It's not unreasonable to think J&D would've been even bigger than they were in their peak years.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: ripplewine on August 07, 2014, 08:03:22 PM
That's a very good point.  Plus, Jan & Dean, unlike the Monkees, were already an established act with a lot of experience in the business.  A regular TV series would have served as excellent promotion for their songs, too.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Charles on August 07, 2014, 09:40:15 PM
I wish I could talk with people who were around Jan at that time, to hear more about where he planned to head. I know he had done some fence sitting, trying to decide whether to stick with the music or to continue with medicine.

With the music, was he planning on further developing his abilities in the studio, or did he just want to make as much loot as possible? Pop Symphonies, among other things, suggests that it wasn't all about making money.

Has Dean said anything about the direction they planned to head in? Was he wanting to be more involved?
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: jdman on August 08, 2014, 04:40:55 AM
I wish I could talk with people who were around Jan at that time, to hear more about where he planned to head. I know he had done some fence sitting, trying to decide whether to stick with the music or to continue with medicine.

With the music, was he planning on further developing his abilities in the studio, or did he just want to make as much loot as possible? Pop Symphonies, among other things, suggests that it wasn't all about making money.

Has Dean said anything about the direction they planned to head in? Was he wanting to be more involved?

That's some good questions Charles. On one hand, you have the TV show which is a goofy funny program. On the other hand, Jan was in the studio producing the backing track for "Girl, you're blowing my mind" which is an awesome piece of work. It's really hard to say which direction Jan & Dean would have gone.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: ripplewine on August 08, 2014, 07:23:07 AM
"Girl You're Blowing My Mind" is a fantastic track indeed--definitely a step in the right direction musically for the duo.  I've always wondered what songs like this one and "Louisiana Man" would have sounded like with Jan & Dean's vocals, had it not been for the accident. 

Perhaps J & D might have decided to go in both directions as they'd done in '63-'64--with a mixture of great music and comedy.  Based on what we hear in Pop Symphony, it seems possible that Jan could also have gotten into writing movie scores--with his skill set, I think he could have flourished there, too.  Much of Jan's classical arrangement of "Drag City" sounds as if it had been plucked right out of an action/drama film.  And then there was medicine, like Charles said.  Jan may have been trying to decide what to do himself, with so many options before him.

Dean once said in an interview about the movie "Deadman's Curve" that a conversation between them about career direction was not far off at the time of Jan's accident.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: 2dean2 on August 09, 2014, 10:56:57 AM
 As far as the Car song things go . Dean was in Hot Rod magazine before Jan & Dean.
A car song was the first Rock and Roll song Rocket 88 by Ike Turner though I understand he did not get credit. So the BB's were way behind the curve.
The "California Sound " created by Jan could've been about anything . Girls , Surfing , Cars , Skateboards were just  few.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Charles on August 09, 2014, 03:22:41 PM
Dean was in Hot Rod magazine? I'd like to hear more about that.

Surfing , Cars , Skateboards....I love those songs. Who knows what themes would Jan have been explored in the 70's? What 70's artist do you think Jan would have been like during that decade? I'm really partial to artist like Curtis Mayfield, Lou Reed and Marvin Gaye, but I can't see Jan doing that kind of music.
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: ripplewine on August 09, 2014, 05:55:43 PM
I remember reading somewhere that Dean and I think one of his cars was featured in Hot Rod Magazine.  I've searched in vain for it, so far.  Does anyone know which issue it was?
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: 2dean2 on August 10, 2014, 07:23:06 PM
I'd say a 57 issue . It showed his 32 Ford Truck . I don't think it was a big article .
Prob just a pic of him and the truck. I 'm not sure musically were Jan would've gone for that matter Brian did'nt seem to do much in the 70's either . Did He ! ?
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: ripplewine on August 11, 2014, 02:27:19 AM
Yep, the '70s weren't very good to Brian, I'm afraid.  I think he wrote just a handful of songs for the albums Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions-So Tough, and Holland.  When Endless Summer came out, with the Beach Boys '60s favorites, it blew those albums out of the water..
Title: Re: What If ?
Post by: Charles on August 11, 2014, 01:23:46 PM
It could be that Jan's journey wouldn't have included Dean, at least into the 70's. Without Jan, Dean would be free to devote more time to Kittyhawk. I know Dean had created some impressive album covers in the 70's. Does any know what happened with his company? My impression is that he was making more touring with Jan, so he let Kittyhawk go.