Jan & Dean: Official Message Board for Jan Berry

JAN & DEAN => DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT => Topic started by: maryw7 on January 02, 2014, 09:41:22 PM

Title: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on January 02, 2014, 09:41:22 PM
 8) 

This interview from December of 2011 is more than cool.

It is RICH of insight from Dean and OF Dean

To me, that is quite satisfying as  Jan and Dean fan

Wanna know how Dean feels?  Read this article ...enjoy!!

http://rockabillynblues.blogspot.com/2011/12/dean-torrence-garage-doo-wop-with-jan.html?m=1. (http://rockabillynblues.blogspot.com/2011/12/dean-torrence-garage-doo-wop-with-jan.html?m=1.) 

Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Mike1965 on January 04, 2014, 04:10:30 AM
Thank you for sharing this Mary.  Very good interview with Dean.  Interesting mention of his high priced collectibles on the Jan & Dean website.  I have seen them many times wishing I was wealthy :)
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: sweetdudejim on February 07, 2014, 10:27:55 PM
Very good interview. Super informative.

His attitude is kinda shitty though, just in general. Kinda put Jan's last 30 years down in a way that I don't think he would if Jan was still alive.

I also think it's a shame he acted like he "couldn't be creative anymore" or whatever because of the "political or economic situation." So reading between the lines with that one, it sounds like he's more worried about protecting his money from taxes by President Obama. Kinda stupid if you ask me. He should be trying to have fun with life instead of acting like a cranky old fart.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 2dean2 on February 08, 2014, 06:44:48 PM
Well I think Dean was telling the truth. Which is what we hide while someone we love is still alive.  I'm sure Jan was very frustrated . After all Jan was a winner, genius, ladies man , singer. Going to be a doctor. Then he wakes up one day and he's so damaged he will never be those again. Ever. And he knows it. He still has the mind to remember and if he dont his fans will want him to sign pics from the old days that remind him. Of what once was and what could've been. And Dean was there before and after the show. When he was Jan & Dean but just Jan a brain damaged cripple.
As far as Dean being worried about the political/economic future a lot of business people were/are and due 100% to Obama and the rest of the ASSHOLE's running/ruining this country
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Surfin Again on February 09, 2014, 12:15:55 AM
Well said, 2dean2

As part of "Jan & Dean", Jan was not important anymore in Phase 2

Actually, there would not have been a Phase 2 without Dean

The TV movie: Even if it was not accurate (and never pretended to be as it was a TV entertainment movie), it triggered the whole thing again and without that, nobody would have taken notice of Jan & Dean anymore

The K-Tel re-recordings: Not as bad as everyone is making them. They found the way on countless comps and oldies best-ofs and kept the name and interest alive. Without them, Jan & Dean just would not have been present on all those releases and sunk into oblivion

The concerts: It was Dean & the Band, with Jan being there. All those tours and successful concerts would not have happend otherwise. To be honest, who cared about Jan & the Alohas?

Further re-recordings: A lot of the stuff on "Silver Summer" or the Legendeary Masked Surfers releases were mighty fine pop songs

I am not putting Jan down as I liked him a lot, but after the accident, the roles within Jan & Dean were (and had to be) reversed

Pinning all the talent and importance solely on Jan is as bad as being one of those Brianistas within the Beach Boys camp (he was important but is not any more)

Give Dean his due and stop putting him down all the time. Without him, Jan & Dean would have ended in April 1966
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 2dean2 on February 09, 2014, 06:07:56 PM
Yes it was Dean who had to say yes . And at the same time Jan had to too. Both tried to do their "solo/duo" thing . But management said the fans want the other guy up there too. Not in anyway putting Jan down . But you never knew what Jan you would see in concert . Bob talks about a show he missed in Kansas City Mo where Jan passed out. I was there Jan in the first show was just hanging back in front of the drum set . With the occasional "Bomp" "Yeah". Then passed out during the second show. I thought they were done as an act . Then supriise next year or was it two . Jan had one of the best shows I'd ever seen !!!!!!
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: jdman on February 10, 2014, 07:46:53 AM
We can go back and forth on this issue. There is no question that Jan Berry is the reason that Jan and Dean and Jan & Arnie happened. He was the work horse and brains behind the whole thing. Dean kept it alive in Phase II. All of you are correct.

All I know is when I'm having a bad day, I put on Jan & Dean and it puts a smile on my face. Sometimes it's the bopping early years, sometimes it's the Jan Berry productions of 63-66. Whatever the case, they are by far my favorite artists and their music was awesome! Everything else takes a back seat to that.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Mark A. Moore on February 10, 2014, 04:36:37 PM
The original era of J&D is all that matters, from a relevance standpoint. J&D never had hit records again, either together or separately. The re-recordings hurt rather than helped, as they flooded the market with false advertising, and did little to steer casual fans to the original recordings.

The bottom line is that Jan had three lucrative (creative) contracts with Screen Gems, and was highly paid during J&D's original era. Dean was not highly paid in the original era. He did okay (far better than many), but nothing approaching Jan's financial situation. Those contracts gave Jan deadlines to meet, with consequences if he didn't.

You'll see the breakdown in the Sessionography. I'm very close to having 1964 ready for publication.

After the accident, Jan was never himself again; and Dean is right. Jan was always frustrtated.

The oldies touring act gave Dean a chance to finally make the most money between the two; and Jan got to be on-stage. And fans got to see them together. Live performances were never Jan's first love, but they were all he had left on a consistent basis (aside from his occasional studio sessions and releases). At least Jan did continue to write, record, and release new material on occasion.

And in the final analysis, they each needed the other to make it work -- in both eras.

Dean's own sister summed it up pretty well in 1977:

"He didn't get that much involved in music. I mean Jan was the one who really got involved with the producing. Also, Jan was a lot stronger character than my brother was . . . like cool . . . and the girls fell over him. My brother was one of those who kinda watched it all . . . stood on the sidelines, you know. He was always kinda there . . . right place at the right time, but he wasn't the one who was putting in all the big energy. He kinda went along with it all. He lived with my mom and dad for a real long time. Like when he was 19 up to when he was 25 he still lived at home. Jan (on the other hand) had a house . . . whereas Dean liked living at home and saving his money, and having a nice Corvette. His parents and me kinda bolstered all the insanity away from his life. He didn't get into drugs or hang out with weird people."
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: craig on February 10, 2014, 05:02:33 PM
2dean2 your dislike for Jan is sad. How many of J and D hits that dean sings in his concerts did he have anything to do with? I saw them in concert twice, 1978 and  1979. Jan was front and center both times and sang his hits and the concerts were great. I saw Dean and his band after Jan was gone and all he wanted to sing were mostly Beach Boy songs with a few of Jan and Dean songs thrown in. So to say phase 2 was all Dean is a slap in the face to a man who struggled  and should be in the R and R hall of  Fame.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 2dean2 on February 10, 2014, 06:35:00 PM
Hey Craig .  I hate to say but you are not understanding my post at all.
I saw Jan & Dean apox 6 times 81 , 83 , 84 , 86 and very late 90's 2000's  Sorry the last two dates are fuzzy.  I  have / had NO Dislike for Jan ! I was simply saying I understood what Dean was saying by Jan being frustrated.  And as far as Jan 's post accident performances go . Sometimes he was spot on as good as a lot of other people who never got hurt . And others he would have a "bad brain day" And Dean and the others would fill in. Even when he was going good members of the band would step in on parts of songs  he used to sing . As he could no longer sing that part . I never liked the amount of BB songs J&D or Dean had in their act . Of course when I saw Dean by himself it was him and Dave Marks of the BB's . So that's understandable. If you knew how many bands never played and still dont play or sing on their recordings you would flip . Dean is just the tip of the iceberg .
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: craig on February 10, 2014, 08:40:14 PM
2dean2  YOU think Dean  should get the credit for phase 2 because Jan was frustrated. There would have  been no Dean with out Jan. We had this discussion on the old board a long time ago. I asked Dean about Mark writing Jans biography, he made it clear that he didn't have a lot of nice things to say about Mark. Why? The title was  All is not well in Surf City. Mark, do you remember that?
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Mark A. Moore on February 10, 2014, 08:56:33 PM
Craig,

There have been a number of topics like this on the boards over the years. I can't keep 'em all straight.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: BlackSea on February 11, 2014, 12:47:59 AM
The only thing that makes sense on this post is the image of the alternative Carnival Of Sound photo.  I can use this for one of my J & D comps.  Thanks Dean,  keep on.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 1WALLY1 on February 11, 2014, 03:41:02 AM
SOUNDS LIKE A BUNCH OF NASH THE SLASH TO ME WITH A BIT OF WALLY YAGI ADDED IN FOR GOOD MEASURE

CHEERS
1WALLY1
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: RockabillyNBlues on February 11, 2014, 09:51:12 AM
Thanks for posting and reading this.  It was a pleasure to speak with Dean and get some of the inside scoop.  I became a fan as a kid and have remained one well into my 40's.  I found him to be witty and insightful.  Understandably, there are some issues that are a bit touchy but he continues to keep the J&D name alive and for that I'm very thankful!!
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Surfin Again on February 11, 2014, 11:05:34 AM
The original era of J&D is all that matters
Without Phase 2, a lot of the younger fans had not even heard of Jan & Dean and they would have been forgotten, like all those other more or less obscure 50s and 60s acts

I think we should be grateful they had an own (even quite successful) TV movie

I admire all that work that is done now for accuracy, but in the end, except a few handfulls of die-hard fans, nobody will care

The re-recordings hurt rather than helped, as they flooded the market with false advertising, and did little to steer casual fans to the original recordings
It's a good thing that they flooded the market, becaue otherwise, the Jan & Dean name wouldn't have been on the market at all. Now, a lot of younger people know the Jan & Dean name, which they otherwise wouldn't

I know/knew a lot of fans and the majority are/were "Phase 2" fans, who had seen the movie or got introduced to them by those K-Tel songs

Maybe everything would have turned out differently if Jan hadn't had the accident which actually has killed a genius, but it has happened and the consequences couldn't have been reversed

Dean did a brilliant, no- to low-budget record with "Save for a rainy Day" which still is one of my favourite Jan & Dean albums, together with their latter stuff like "Folk 'n Roll". It perfectly captures the sound of the early mid-Sixties sound and is great listening, just to sit there and enjoy the music

Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 1WALLY1 on February 11, 2014, 11:39:59 AM
I think a rumble should be organised to sort this one out.  Jan followers on one side, Deans on the other.  Venue  the University High football oval.  Rules,  no weapons,  no hair pulling,  kicking or scratching.  Twelve pound gloves to be used.  We'll get Arnie Ginsberg to referee. The winner gets a mint copy of the Jan and Dean Story Lp and the looser gets an original copy of the Beachboys MIU album,  vinyl copy so you won't be able to hide it.
See you on the field.

CHEERS
1WALLY1
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: BlackSea on February 11, 2014, 12:18:19 PM
LOL, 1Wally,  what about the Jan and Dean followers, the neutral ones.
The MIU album hey,  I know what you mean.  The only reason I hang on to this one is cos Dean designed the cover. What side are you planning to side with for the rumble.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: jdman on February 11, 2014, 01:00:44 PM
You guys are funny. It's never Jan vs Dean for me. Phase II was very important. The movie changed my musical life. But I see no purpose for the 1977 K-Tel recordings. They did nothing but confuse me. Even at 12 years old, I could tell that my K-tel Jan & Dean album didn't sound like the songs in the movie. When I got the Anthology album a few months later, it blew me away. Other than the 2 Beach Boy covers being included, I think the Anthology album was awesome!
The 1977 K-Tel versions served no purpose. The market should have been flooded with the original recordings after the movie. Anthology, the DMC release in 1979, are good examples of what should have been more available.

It's never Jan vs Dean. It's the original vs remakes. I always choose the originals. It's beyond me why all those groups(not just Dean) would re-record their old hits 20 years later.Who wants to hear that? People want the original hit versions or maybe live versions too. But never have I heard someone say they want Peter Noone to re-record Mrs. Brown or the Angels to re-record My Boyfriend's Back. Nobody wants that. I have no use for the 1977 re-recordings.
I'm not knocking Dean when I say I prefer the originals because he was on most of those anyway.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Surfin Again on February 11, 2014, 01:17:37 PM
All it's been about was the money

The chepo-record companies didn't want to pay good money for the hits, so (part of the original) artists would re-record their hits for them, K-Tel being a good example

Hadn't they done that, the artists wouldn't have been featured on those oldies comps at all. So it is better to have them heard by the buyers than not been on there at all

Those interested in the artists would buy the originals later, just to discover they were a lot better, like a lot of us did

I am not a Dean follower (nor a Jan follower)  I like them as Jan & Dean with all their group- solo- and side-efforts

But people should realise the reason why those rerecordings were there and that they did a good thing in the end

Did anyone from the Phase 2 concert goers say that the gigs were bad, just because the shows were not produced by Jan and did not feature the wrecking crew as a band?

With Papa Doo Run Run, it was basically the team who did those K-Tel versions and people enjoyed it live, to a great success

The re-recordings were nothing but the studio versions of those songs
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 1WALLY1 on February 11, 2014, 01:28:59 PM
Blacksea, I'll be siting on the Grandstand watching the proceedings,  sitting alongside Dean and Gertie Berry listening to Something A Little Bit Different on the headphones and chomping down a  couple of Wagon Wheels.
JDMAN, I hear what your saying.  I'm probably the same age as you and got into J and D the same way as you. First album J &D Story followed by the Anthology. I need to point out that it was a good year between buying the J &D Story to buying the Anthology. In that year I probably heard the KTEL Lp over two thousand times. These  recordings as a result remind of that time.  Personally,  in my opinion, they are quality recordings. I can't see how they can hurt Jan and Dean career wise.  As a result of that first purchase,  one week of lunch money,  I now have accumalated over 200 Jan and Dean items,  be it vinyl,  cassette,  CD.  I think alot of other J and D fans who were introduced the same way I was feel the same way about these recordings.
There's just no way these recordings can hurt Jan and Dean.

CHEERS
1WALLY1
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: BlackSea on February 11, 2014, 02:19:47 PM
HEAR,  HERE 1Wally1. Over 200 items hey you must be starving dude. LOL
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 1WALLY1 on February 11, 2014, 02:27:53 PM
Man tell me about it,  1980, Ride The Wild Surf LP from an import record store,  three weeks lunch money. 

CHEERS
1WALLY1
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 2dean2 on February 11, 2014, 06:28:05 PM
Craig , I think both Jan & Dean should get credit for Phase 2 . Not just Dean dont know where you got that. Because Jan was frustrated ????  You do realize we are talking day to day events . The ones we take for granted . Right handed ? Put it in your pocket and do things all day left handed , Reverse if LH'd . I dont know how to tell you take imitate Jan's mental handicap , His speech and if you ever met him as I did be talking to him and he just shut down . Dave Logan the drummer had to say "JAN, JAN , JAN " "Oh a yeah" back to signing my stuff and asking or commenting on it. Used to "speed read" a medical book take a test and Ace it . Now you can't read a "Dick and Jane " book with out help . That not him and Dean on stage and he can't sing as well as before is what Dean and I meant by Jan being frustrated.  As far as the rumble goes save me a seat 1WALLY1 . I'll get us some In & Out burgers , fries and Shakes . Oh my first J&D albums Original DMC/NGnS . Was my brothers he is 16 years older so he was 16 in 63. Then Dean's Jan & Dean Anthology I never got to order the "Surf & Drag" by the way. LOL LOL
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: BlackSea on February 12, 2014, 12:03:41 AM
I think I'll join you guys on the grandstand it's lonely being the only Nash the Slash fan.  1Wally1 did you keep the OBI's on your Japanese records, theyre worth alot more with the OBI intact.  LOL.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: craig on February 12, 2014, 07:51:21 AM
2dean2, I am 63 and have been a fan of Jan and Dean since 1964. I am not going to argue with you any longer. You seem to think you are the only one that knows anything about Jan and Dean and Jans day to day physical and mental health. Just remember Jan was the genius behind Jan and Dean and always will be. End of story.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: BlackSea on February 12, 2014, 08:13:05 AM
Is that the Jan and Dean Story or this post.
Lighten up dude, we're takin' about Jan and Dean the Laurel and Hardy of pop music.
LOL
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Surfin Again on February 12, 2014, 08:33:12 AM
Just remember Jan was the genius behind Jan and Dean and always will be
Up to April 1966, then things slightly changed

End of story
Wrong

End of Phase 1
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Surfin Again on February 12, 2014, 08:39:20 AM
Jan and Dean the Laurel and Hardy of pop music
Exactly

And that's why I prefer them over the Beach Boys

Their songs were more "pow" than those polished gems of the BB

Jan & Dean songs were a lot more fun than the Beach 5

There always were little "weaknesses" and "slips" in their music

Why?

Jan didn't notice them?
He didn't care?
Maybe Dean's influence was bigger than some people would like to admit?
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: BlackSea on February 12, 2014, 11:47:43 AM
Just remember Jan was the genius behind Jan and Dean and always will be
Up to April 1966, then things slightly changed

End of story
Wrong

End of Phase 1

Your comebacks are cracking me up dude
Lol


Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 2dean2 on February 12, 2014, 06:09:55 PM
Craig , First off we do not argue on here. We have conversations.
Yes Jan was the genius behind the act . In phase 1 . However we are/were talking about an interview with Dean concerning Phase 2. And his "frustrated " comment. I do not nor have I ever claimed to know it all about J&D or Jan's condition. There is a lot of info I've gotten over the years I've had to sort through . And I still am misinformed or ignorant on many J/D/J&D issues.  I think you are either reading too much into my post . Or you are wanting to "stir the pot" . Who knows and quite frankly who cares . As was said before lghten up. LOL LOL.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 14, 2014, 02:40:57 PM
Wow.......

Though when i first started this thread, it meant alot to me, i'd given up on it and thought no one cared ...

...how wrong i was

Now, i printed off all your replies and am taking the rest of the day to study them and the article and other articles of recent years with Dean O

and gonna try to comment again

i care
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 14, 2014, 02:48:27 PM
For me, it was great to read all your thoughts.  And there's so much to respond to.

Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: BlackSea on February 14, 2014, 03:11:20 PM
Mary this posting was a riot, Jan and Dean comebacks all over the place. The globle moderator and craig copped a pasting. All in good fun.
Flood the market I say with those 77 rerecordings.
LOL
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 14, 2014, 03:43:11 PM
Mary this posting was a riot, Jan and Dean comebacks all over the place. The globle moderator and craig copped a pasting. All in good fun.
Flood the market I say with those 77 rerecordings.
LOL

Now, this however, BlackSea...i just don't understand what you mean:  "...copped a pasting" ..."Flood the market I say with those 77 rerecordings" ?  Hmmm....wonder what this means!
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 14, 2014, 03:45:49 PM
anyhue...

As to the other things commented on...

#1  Wonderful to see RockabillyNBlues, himself, write on here.  He who communicated with Dean and provided the interview  ...THANK YOU! so much for taking the opportunity and sweet time to talk with him and all the marvelous questions.  THANK YOU!!! 

#2  GREAT to see SurfinAgain writing and sharing...(as well as everyone else)...your board and site meant alot to me --  ALOT

#3  SweetDudeJim:  am puzzled that you got such a take on Dean's words--and i appreciated 2Dean2's response to your post. 

Well I think Dean was telling the truth. Which is what we hide while someone we love is still alive.

Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 14, 2014, 04:21:49 PM
continued #3 

It wasn't surprising to read Dean's thoughts in this article as i recalled two others from the past...one written many, many years ago, during Phase II,  but well before Jan passed (which i'd read reprinted in Sunshine Music)  As i recall, Dean confided that it was difficult for him to say it was such a wonderful thing that Jan survived the car wreck when he saw how much it hurt Jan to be "there" enough to remember what he'd been like ...and ...how it was for him now.

...and then, in an interview before a concert April 2011 at the Spencer, Dean responded with "The truth is for the first couple of shows, it was actually quite liberating," quickly adding that while he deeply missed performing with Berry, doing so was often fraught with challenges due to Berry's aphasia and paralysis resulting from the 1966 accident.  "We always had to keep an eye on Jan, because you just never knew when he might fall down or whatever."

Personally, I think it truly was putting it mildly when saying "he might fall down or whatever".  Along with what 2Dean2 was trying to express in his other posts, the day to day trials for Jan in everyday things, there was the excruciatingly difficult times when Jan's understandable inability to simply (or NOT so simply) make it to the stage or to the waiting transportation TO the stage, came into play.  Or perhaps, who can count the times when the pressure was on, as Jan's emotional pain from these continual trials before shows caused Dean to undergo extreme pressure with the fact that a contract might not be able to be fulfilled...with a crowd seated, waiting for them to appear. 

PLUS, the awfully inexcusable times when venues were not adequately prepared to equip a handicapped performer's basic requirements...yet would Dean be able to let his feelings fly in such circumstances?  NO!  He would have to genuinely, remain courteous to these hosts of events as well as make sure Jan's needs were at least, bare minimum provided for.

It's nerve-racking for any performers before a show and traveling for those shows...so with the all the added stress of these things i've pointed out, one can't minimize the motivations behind and inside of Dean to have handled things the way he did for he and Jan...I do not believe that it was all for money.  It's fun to say it was for the money--it's easy on many levels to have said that...Because who is willing to list the other needs and existing reasons?  They're pretty deep and show our vulnerability--and that's uncomfortable:   to give a life long friend and partner a most meaningful source of fulfillment and means of self-provision -- which enriched LOTS of people in many ways--that's one other thing and as and more important than money. 
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 2dean2 on February 14, 2014, 05:39:29 PM
Thanks Mary.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 14, 2014, 05:58:12 PM
You're welcome

The Spencer article/ interview also included near the end: 
"It's a Jan and Dean set," he said (Dean).  "Jan and I were friends.  We became friends in high school, even before the music.  It wasn't like we hooked up because of the music and that's all there was to it.  He's still with me today"
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Salzburg Surf Scene on February 15, 2014, 05:32:44 AM
This has become a great thread. Good to have some passion out there! I like the rumble idea - but we should make it more interesting with a breakaway "Arnie-ist" faction, and then a really weird group who reckon it was all aliens. If we mixed in a few egos, then we really would be like the smiley smile board...

Back on topic. I think the interview is very interesting - and important - in that it gives an insight to what Dean has really thought over the years. We have all been so swept up in the incredibly moving story of Jan's journey to "recovery", that we tend to overlook - I think we try to overlook - his ongoing disabilities and the daily hardships.

And this brings me to another point, another tragedy in the Jan Berry story. The narrative we have, of Jan's brave battle to overcome his problems - has become "THE" Jan Berry story. It is a moving and inspiring one, no doubt. But it has overshadowed the other Jan Berry story: the story of the rebel musical genius, who laid the foundations for much of the music of the 1960s (and after); who revolutionised recording techniques and the very ways of organising and running a recording session; and who produced some of the most remarkable music of a period that was filled with remarkable music. The story of Jan Berry - as related in the general media and the public imagination -  is of the rock star who battled to overcome disability. It is about Jan the tragic but heroic human being; but it is never about Jan the musician and genius. In a sense one story has overshadowed the other, and that really is a tragedy, because it means the music - which is Jan's legacy - is so often overlooked.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Surferdan on February 15, 2014, 12:21:27 PM
Hello,
I have been looking at this sight on and off for about a year and have to say that this has been the most entertaining entry I have read. I didn't want it to end the play between 1wally1 and Black Sea was extremely entertaining so much so that I had to read their entry's several times. A rumble haven't heard that one for a while. Nash the Slash I had to read the other post to figure out who or what this was and the reference to the Beach Boys had me laughing so hard. It was also nice to see people come to Deans or for a better word Jan and Deans defence.
Well thank you and I hope there are more posts like this all in the Jan and Dean spirit of things. Flood the market with those KTEL CDs.
Thankyou.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 2dean2 on February 15, 2014, 06:40:23 PM
Ok if Arnie's people are in the rumble . I'm gonna kick some ass !
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 15, 2014, 09:26:36 PM
 :)
You guys R being funny

Rummble - bummble!! 
MORE phase 2 please ( and then, Lord willing, I will go to #4 in making comments on yur commentings )

Cute Scenes of Jan & Dean....Charles City, Iowa Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed1Y2UZLkwE&feature=youtube_gdata_player#)
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: jdman on February 16, 2014, 05:53:32 AM
Salzburg, the post you wrote-shown at the bottom here- is a great post. I appreciate what you said and agree that Jan's phase I story is being overshadowed by the human story of his comeback. While I think Jan's comeback is an awesome,inspiring story about courage, friendship(with Dean), and determination, Jan's accomplishments pre-1966 is what matters musically. The posts on this board have been a little silly lately,which is fun, but I really love what you wrote here. You're right. Hopefully, Mark's research will help bring the truth out about Jan's true influence and impact on music history.
(I've got to learn how the copy previous posts like the rest of you do with the lines)





This has become a great thread. Good to have some passion out there! I like the rumble idea - but we should make it more interesting with a breakaway "Arnie-ist" faction, and then a really weird group who reckon it was all aliens. If we mixed in a few egos, then we really would be like the smiley smile board...

Back on topic. I think the interview is very interesting - and important - in that it gives an insight to what Dean has really thought over the years. We have all been so swept up in the incredibly moving story of Jan's journey to "recovery", that we tend to overlook - I think we try to overlook - his ongoing disabilities and the daily hardships.



And this brings me to another point, another tragedy in the Jan Berry story. The narrative we have, of Jan's brave battle to overcome his problems - has become "THE" Jan Berry story. It is a moving and inspiring one, no doubt. But it has overshadowed the other Jan Berry story: the story of the rebel musical genius, who laid the foundations for much of the music of the 1960s (and after); who revolutionised recording techniques and the very ways of organising and running a recording session; and who produced some of the most remarkable music of a period that was filled with remarkable music. The story of Jan Berry - as related in the general media and the public imagination -  is of the rock star who battled to overcome disability. It is about Jan the tragic but heroic human being; but it is never about Jan the musician and genius. In a sense one story has overshadowed the other, and that really is a tragedy, because it means the music - which is Jan's legacy - is so often overlooked.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 16, 2014, 10:26:20 PM
Hi back to Surfer Dan-- enjoyed yur post--Appreciating your appendment making it:  Jan and Dean's defense rather than just Dean's in that part of it, especially.  AND the place you said to flood the markets with the KTels--think I will make that commentary #4, hopefully tomorrow, LW
Hello,
I have been looking at this sight on and off for about a year and have to say that this has been the most entertaining entry I have read. I didn't want it to end the play between 1wally1 and Black Sea was extremely entertaining so much so that I had to read their entry's several times. A rumble haven't heard that one in a while...
It was also nice to see people come to Deans or for a better word Jan and Deans defence......
Flood the market with those KTEL CDs.
Thankyou.
Jdman,  I agree with your agreement:
Salzburg, the post you wrote-shown at the bottom here- is a great post. I appreciate what you said and agree that Jan's phase I story is being overshadowed by the human story of his comeback. While I think Jan's comeback is an awesome,inspiring story about courage, friendship(with Dean), and determination, Jan's accomplishments pre-1966 is what matters musically. The posts on this board have been a little silly lately,which is fun, but I really love what you wrote here. You're right.
However!, think I will take issue with yours and Mr. Moore's persistent usage of: Jan's accomplishments of Phase 1 -- some agreement from me there, but some diversity to point out. Thanks
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: jdman on February 17, 2014, 05:18:33 AM
Mary, I'm only referring to the recorded music when I say that Phase I is the most important era. Phase II was a blast. I saw them three times and enjoyed every time. The movie was extremely important for fans like me who were introduced to Jan & Dean, and Jan's comeback is amazing. But the recorded music that happened from 1958-1966 is what made Jan & Dean legends and pioneers, especially Jan as far as musical influence and talent.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: 2dean2 on February 17, 2014, 05:17:38 PM
When I would see Jan & Dean in phase 2 . I would talk to families who had seen them the year before and the kids loved them and wanted to come back again . Lot of new preteen and teenage fans came from phase 2.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 17, 2014, 05:48:19 PM
Goooood EVEning all...

 :)  JD, reading your latest post some how really got throough to me!  I hear what you say:  "Mary, I'm only referring to the recorded music when i say that Phase 1 is the most important era. " 

Maybe that's because you then followed that immediately with all your points regarding Phase II :  a.  a blast  b.  personally seeing them and enjoying every time   c.  Jan's comeback--amazing 

So what i heard in your words: 

Phase 1  -   Jan & Dean--recording artists  /  as such, were pioneers and legends in the music world and industry because of ALL they accomplished, breaking ground

Phase II - Jan & Dean--reinvented as mostly live musicians because of the unwelcomed death of their original act / and as such, brought back their partnership (which was very satisfying for those people who remembered and loved them in Phase 1)

AND, it brought aNOTHER legendary aspect - for Jan & Dean - and for the music industry: 
1st - Dean produces music as the driving force of Jan & Dean making great use of their goals, intentions and unfunished tracks and even pushing forward some unfulfilled dreams:  their own label, etc.  2nd - probably first artists to take the stage with handicap
PLUS 3rdly - grasping a whole new crop of Jan & Dean fans because of the movie, remakes (GO Ktel / is that meaning "Silver Summer"?)

In this vein, I'd like to pull back to Salzburg's words earlier which i gave agreement with, but didn't cite:

... We have all been so swept up in the incredibly moving story of Jan's journey to "recovery"

and to 2Dean2's now:
When I would see Jan & Dean in phase 2 . I would talk to families who had seen them the year before and the kids loved them and wanted to come back again . Lot of new preteen and teenage fans came from phase 2.
So, Yes!, i can agree with Mr. Moore and you, JDman, that Phase 1 is all that really matters regarding,
    Jan & Dean - RECORDING music legend -but here is my ISSUE: 

(to break it up i will make another post)


Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 17, 2014, 06:54:51 PM
Just voicing my heartfelt thoughts...please

What i cannot agree with...
   is the notion that ...
       Phase 1 is to be credited MOSTLY to Jan

...even THO Dean himself has always been Jan's greatest fan! and has given his partner the credit as being the energy and driving force that "Jan & Dean" exist

( RECALL ...total recall! ) :

ANTHOLOGY!!  ...included not only their hits and more:    a. their valuable ORIGINALLY intended "Filet of Soul," side 4    b. the coool list of their cars and girls!!  ;)    c.  photographs    d.  THE DEDICATION
   this ALL being Dean's work of art ...and remember that important appearance he made for them on Midnight Special 1972, and the special way he talked of this as he shared it

AND what about "Gotta Take that One Last Ride" he made happen for them in 1974....that piece is GREAT! and shares SOOO much original and WAY cool music!!

OK .........

Please understand my issue:

Phase I   -    totally THE foundation and THE introduction of:   Jan & Dean

But hear this:
...Lighten up dude, we're takin' about Jan and Dean the Laurel and Hardy of pop music.
LOL
and then Surfin Again made sure we didn't miss that important truth of a fact:
Jan and Dean the Laurel and Hardy of pop music
Exactly
....

Their songs were more "pow" than those polished gems of the BB

Jan & Dean songs were a lot more fun than the Beach 5

There always were little "weaknesses" and "slips" in their music

Why?

Jan didn't notice them?
He didn't care?
Maybe Dean's influence was bigger than some people would like to admit?
EXCELLENT point Surfin Again ...at least to me

In David Beard's interview with Dean "Jan & Dean's Alteration," May 28th, 2011

http://www.examiner.com/article/jan-dean-s-alteration (http://www.examiner.com/article/jan-dean-s-alteration)

Dean remembers some important diddies that are KEY...absolute KEY, to THE Jan & Dean we all love and that BROKE the ground, as you all say: 

   "There was one time... I remember this pretty vividly.  Jan came to pick me up to go to a show that we were doing, and we would be meeting Lou there.  We had the suits that Lou made us buy, and I was looking for something... maybe a belt or something.  I saw my Dad's clothes.  I said to Jan, "Come here!  Check this out!"  We started cracking up.  There were big baggy suits that my Dad wore in the 1940s and 50s.  We decided to try the suits on and they were really, really funny.  We left those clothes on and put the clothes he wanted us to wear in the car just in case, but let's show up with these just to scare the crap out of him.  Lou's jaw just dropped... He had no clue of whether or not we were serious, and we played it really straight.
.......
We were kind of like the Andy Kaufmans of our day.  I was the ringleader with that type of humor, but Jan was more than a willing accomplice"

Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 17, 2014, 06:58:45 PM
No one who paid attention to the makings of Jan & Dean will argue that Jan is the  REASON they exist ... and that he is the base talent of their recordings ...

however, we can NOT, please!, we should not DOWN play the part that they, together delivering the music, first as doo whop (with their humor coming through EVEN then),  brought the duo to the heights of their groundbreaking accomplishments

I do not believe they would have had success if not for the combination...no matter how much talent Jan brought to the table.  It was only because of the combination of the two of them...Jan's mostly brilliant musical side AND his special sense of humor   ADDED WITH    Dean's mostly brilliant sense of irreverent humor AND his special, fantastic voice, which i believe he added even to the writings of some of those now famous songs (even if we do not have formal documentation)

Command Performance and Filet of Soul ..."On The Run" and soooo much more display and showcase the real Jan & Dean
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: jdman on February 18, 2014, 04:24:50 AM
Well said Mary! I'm a Jan & Dean fan, not just a Jan Berry fan. I hope my posts don't diminish that fact.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 22, 2014, 06:50:15 PM
...thanks much, JDman ...your post of that  ...last scene -- on Youtube has always been mighty special AND important for  the world of J and D ...i mean, regarding  their influence ...in my opinion

and i can't thank you enough for taking the chance on posting it.  And no ...

...I'm a Jan & Dean fan, not just a Jan Berry fan. I hope my posts don't diminish that fact.
...your posts don't diminish that   :)   Especially not whenst you capp it off like that.  At least to me.
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 22, 2014, 07:06:08 PM
The re-recordings hurt rather than helped, as they flooded the market with false advertising, and did little to steer casual fans to the original recordings.

....

Live performances were never Jan's first love, but they were all he had left on a consistent basis (aside from his occasional studio sessions and releases).

These are opinion, i believe.  And i don't agree.  Yes... through Jan's WHOLE life, it may be true that live performing wasn't his first love, but who can say that it wasn't in Phase II ?  He may have LOVED writing and recording music in Phase II, too ...but the man seemed to LOVE his live performances and connecting with the public almost more than anything when we knew him.  It seems off to say "...it was all he had" ...

Quite a few opinions here seem to think that the rerecordings did not hurt Jan & Dean

Are these thoughts okay to share, Mr. Moore.  Hope so. 

Phase 1 was SHORTER than Phase II, afterall ...and Jan performed ever so much

...yeah....he loved that
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: maryw7 on February 23, 2014, 08:37:53 PM
Another thing, too ...this "over shadowing" thing:  a thought that Jan's fight back from the accident taking the forefront--

REALLY?

Isn't it more accurate that whenever we read overviews of "Jan & Dean", there's LOTS written in the article about how they got started, (met in high school), made music in a garage, Dean goes to service, Jan & Arnie, THEN exit Arnie, back comes Dean, hits -- THEN car crash!, followed by they make oldies circuit?  --just saying. 

That's the reality -- much more emphasis on Phase 1 in articles, and less on the comeback
Title: Re: A Christmas present from 2011
Post by: Mark A. Moore on February 23, 2014, 08:54:50 PM

Mary . . . you entertain me . . . you really do :)