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Messages - Relx1

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I'm sorry, but Dean's comments indicate that he really didn't know or understand the post-accident Jan if he is saying that his post-accident IQ was 68, which does indicate mental retardation. It wasn't like Jan was some kind of idiot savant after the accident, who could do music and nothing else. And, Dean doesn't even talk about the post-accident musical abilities of Jan in the interview. If I was just a casual fan, I would think that Jan was a barely functioning person after the accident, and would know nothing about the musical side. Likely, that is because Dean know little--or was little interested--in the musical side of Jan, post-accident.  As far as the 1980 interview is concerned, that was 30 years ago, and it seems obvious that Jan and Dean's relationship deteriorated in the 1980s and 1990s. It's clear if you read Bob Greene's book--and btw, whatever the faults of that book, Bob certainly does not portray Jan as being of limited intelligence.

The results from the test are then used to classify people into various intelligence categories. The system used for such classification is commonly known as the Stanford-Binet system.

The following result below of IQ scores indicates the different intelligence categories:

Under 70: Very mentally retarded

71-80: Mentally retarded

81-90: Slightly slow to grasp change

91-110: Normal level of intellect

111-120: High Intelligence

121 - 150: Very high intelligence

150++: Exceptional intelligence

170++: Genius

This is also from the interview:

"As far as being a part of the team he wasn’t because he didn’t really understand anything that we were doing or why we did it. He was kind of along for the ride. But still it was a good ride and he enjoyed it, but being a part of the camaraderie, he had nothing to do with that, which was a shame, but it was what it was. “He went from having an IQ of about 175 to 68. It was very limited the kinds of things he enjoyed."

I'm sorry, but Dean is just an asshole. An IQ of "68" actually indicates mental retardation. So, Dean is saying that Jan was a retard after the accident. It's amazing how a retard was able to produce Carnival of Sound, Second Wave, Port to Paradise, all those 1970s era singles, plus write all those songs after the accident.

Someone should tell Dean to shut the hell up. I mean, I am sure he knows, as we all do, that without Jan he would have become NOTHING, certainly not a famous, wealthy rock star (who continues to live off of Jan's legacy). From reading interviews with him over the years, Dean sounds like a non-reflective, closed in person who has major problems handling any kind of emotional intimacy. He lies about the past, and twists things to his advantage. And its become worse and worse over the past 10, 15 years. I think he just resents the fact that Jan, his meal ticket, got into the accident, essentially ending the creative part of their career. And once Jan became brain damaged, emotionally damaged Dean had no idea how to deal with him, so Jan became a "retard" to him.

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Re: Jan's voice, post-accident
« on: August 19, 2010, 12:57:09 PM »
I do own this CD, and yes, it is one of my prime examples of the changes in Jan's voice over the course of the 1970s. His singing here is much clearer and stronger, and sounds much like it did pre-accident.

If you listen to this video, which I believe is from their Midnight Special appearance in 1979, Jan's voice, while strong, has already acquired that nasally tone I was talking about:
Jan and Dean with Papa Doo Run Run

I wonder if the constant touring he did starting in the late 1970s was the culprit for the decline in the quality of his voice? By the time of the 1981 One Summer Night Live record, his voice sounds weak. And while you could blame the drugs he was doing at the time for some of that, in the 1980s and 1990s, when he was clean, his voice didn't really sound much better. As I said, it is mainly that nasally tone, which he didn't have in the early to mid-70s.

DON'T YOU JUST KNOW IT / Jan's voice, post-accident
« on: August 18, 2010, 11:56:45 AM »
I don't know if anyone can answer this, but I was wondering about the changes in Jan's post-accident voice during the course of the 1970s. If you listen to his early 70s stuff--for example, Mother Earth and Tinsel Town--his voice, while clearly affected by the brain damage, still has many similarities to his pre-accident voice. In other words, it still sounds like Jan. He would also try--and sometimes hit--all these long, high notes, as if he were really pushing his range.

However, by the late 1970s, his voice had changed. He developed this nasally, deeper tone, and, to be honest, sounded much more "brain damaged" than he had in the early to mid-70s. For the most part, his live singing is not good from the late 70s on, and while he sounds much better in the studio, that deep, nasal tone remained until he died.

Was all this the result of an intentional change in the way he sung? Maybe it allowed him to sing more quickly? As a possibly related example, in the 1970s, he used to walk very slowly, dragging his right leg along. By the 1990s, however, he was able to walk much more quickly, but he had to contort his body in a much more noticeable way in order to do so.

Albums / Re: 1965 — Folk 'n Roll
« on: May 23, 2010, 09:58:16 AM »

I have to agree with Owen. When I first listened to Folk n Roll as a teenager, I too was embarrased by the lyrics to the "Universal Coward," and to a lesser degree, "Only A Boy." (Though both are great musically). And despite whatever  "the establishment" felt at the time, "Only A Boy" is clearly a pro-war song--"He helped people stay free from the misery of tyranny, yeah he died without fright in a fight that he knew was right." Pretty unambiguous right-wing, pro-war sentiment. 

Now, my being a fan of Jan and Dean is not predicated on my agreeing or disagreeing with their political views from 45 years ago, but I do think that neither "Universal Coward" nor "Only A Boy" are satire--in the way "Folk City" clearly is--and that both songs likely reflect Jan's political views at the time. Even Dean--I know, not always the most reliable source--has been quote as saying something to the effect of "Jan was in favor of war--as long as he didn't have to fight in it."

Did they actually do "Linda" live on Murry the K? It's a weird recording on the "Early Years." Murry introduces J&D, a band plays some background music, and you can hear Jan say "thank you." Up until then, it all sounds live...and then it goes into a recording of the original song. Even the audience noise sounds canned while the song plays. Did they actually do "Linda" live on the show? I would love to hear a live version of "Linda" from before the accident.

"I often wonder what would have happened if Jan & Dean had tried to talk things out pretty soon after Jan got home from the hospital. I think they could have salvaged their recording career."

While Mark and others probably know more about this, I would think that what you ask, while obvious with the hindsight of forty years, would have been impossible at that time. First off, from what I have read, Jan was in no condition, mentally, physically or emotionally, to have had a rational conversation with Dean about this stuff. Jan was simaltaneously in denial about the extent and permanence of his injuries while also pushing himself to recover and get back to recording music. While I could be wrong, I don't think it was easy back then to sit down and have a calm conversation with Jan, for a variety of reasons.

At the same time, while will never know the true motivations behind what Dean did, recording SFARD under the J&D name was illegal, and Dean had to know that. I mean, he even put a picture of Jan's brother on the cover in place of Jan, which is actually interesting in itself--did some parts of the Berry family support Dean in his efforts? No matter what, Dean did an obvious and illegal end run around Jan, probably knowing that Jan would have said no if Dean had asked him beforehand if he could record SFARD.

The interesting thing here is, would Jan have allowed Dean to be involved in COS if Dean had not recorded SFARD? Or did Jan regard the recording of SFARD as a big "FU" from Dean, and thus no longer want to have anything to do with him afterward?

It really is fascinating to consider their relationship at this time, and wonder how it all fell apart so quickly, and for the most part, permanently. Jan and Dean were actually living together before the accident, so obviously their relationship was fine at that point. In addition, Dean had been content to be the second banana for their entire career, so you have to wonder why he decided to step up so aggressively after the accident? Was he really trying just to keep the J&D name alive with SFARD? Or, had he secretly resented Jan for years, and looked at this as an opportunity to take control of the act? I find it interesting that Dean never attempted any true creative recordings after SFARD, even though the record proved that he had talent. It is as if once Jan rejected his music, he shut that part of himself down forever.

For Jan's part, it seems as if the accident brought out an attitude that Dean was inconsequential to the act, and that Jan and Dean was really just Jan Berry. Again, was this caused by Dean recording SFARD, or was it just a reflection of Jan's attitude all along, which the trauma of the accident allowed to come to the surface?

Carnival of Sound / Re: If COS had come out in 1968
« on: March 27, 2010, 08:14:14 PM »
Hi Mark,

Was Jan's post accident condition well known by the general fan in 1968? I assume that if COS was going to be marketed as a "comeback" album for him, most fans had to know the shape he was in? Was this the case, or were J&D sort of forgotten by 1968? I was not born during J&D's heyday, so I have no idea how popular they were in the late sixties. However, by 1968, J&D hadn't had a hit in four years, and surf music was very out of style--look at how unpopular the Beach Boys had become by that time. In that environment, would many people have cared about a comeback from Jan and Dean?

Carnival of Sound / If COS had come out in 1968
« on: March 27, 2010, 01:50:30 PM »
I have a question for Mark, or for anyone who can answer, or at least hazard a guess. If Carnival had come out in 1968, how was the album going to be promoted? Obviously, there weren't going to be any live shows or tours in support of it, and since Dean did not appear on the record, and Jan could barely speak, how was promotion going to be done for a "Jan and Dean" record that featured neither Jan nor Dean? While today we know that "Jan and Dean" often meant Jan and a bunch of different studio musicians, I assume that information was not common knowledge among the average fan in 1968. If COS had come out back in '68, with Jan's condition at the time, it would have been obvious that he had not sung on the record, and with Dean not appearing at all, I just wonder how this record was going to be marketed to the average fan?

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